Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tony-4497]

Almost every country in the EU had border changes in the last century, most of them because of conflict. I imagine that many people lost out. All seem to have been settled - well maybe not Kosova, although that's not in the EU (yet?). I, along with an increasing number of Turkish people, sincerely hope that you continue to block Turkey's entrance into a EU which now seems well past its sell-by date.

..and if you go back beyond 100 hundred years, people burnt "witches".. further back still, they lived in caves.. so f*cking what?

Turkey is a country that all the times states she is European, respects human rights, the ECHR etc etc and wants to be in the EU.

If these statements are genuine then she will recognise we do no live in 1900 or 1945 and give back what she stole.

If not, she can stay in that era and well out of the EU - so you (and the likes of you) will have nothing to fear..

[-mikkie2-]

I share Tim's sentiments regarding property issue. Individual property rights cannot be signed away by politicians. That is why it is imperative that individuals have the final say on what happens to their land or property.

The upshot of this will be that individuals will be able to take the United Republic of Cyprus to EU courts for proper restitution. Now theres a thing - refugees taking their own country to court instead of Turkey. Perhaps this is why Talat is adamant that he wants the current users to have the final say. Basically, it will end up in choas.

Although Bananiot is right that we need a compromise political solution, this cannot extend to individual rights because property ownership is not a political issue.

[observer]

I share Tim's sentiments regarding property issue. Individual property rights cannot be signed away by politicians. That is why it is imperative that individuals have the final say on what happens to their land or property.

That's not actually true. Compulsary purchase for the greater good of the community is well established.

In practice, if the price was right how many people would object through the courts? I don't think that anyone actually knows, but it is not likely to be a huge number. I don't see legions of GC professionals coming back to farm their parents' or grandparents' plots of land. The number of TCs wanting to move south must be minimal, as they have been able to do so for many years and few have.

As for the law, only recently the Czech government insisted on an opt out of certain parts of the EU Lisbon Treaty so that German expellees (refugees in GC-speak) could not make any claims... and no witches were burned!

[-mikkie2-]

"Compulsary purchase for the greater good of the community is well established."

What?

The point of compulsory purchase in most countries is for contruction of infrastructure projects which are for the COMMON good, for example for roads, airports etc.

"As for the law, only recently the Czech government insisted on an opt out of certain parts of the EU Lisbon Treaty so that German expellees (refugees in GC-speak) could not make any claims... and no witches were burned!"

This is not strictly true. The opt out is from the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, not from the Lisbon Treaty as such. The opt out is meaningless because the Lisbon Treaty actually enshrines the European Charter of Fundamental Rights into law, although it does not make explicit reference to it. Therefore, it is legally questionable if this opt out will stand up in court.

The issue of German expellees is that it was dealt with under various treaties after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_ ... _expellees

This does not mean that individuals cannot take their own action in regard to property claims in the Czech republic, although I am not sure if anyone has challenged this by going to european courts.

The UK also has opt outs from various EU laws but again, it is questionable if they have legal standing. I believe that the UK has had to ammend laws because some aspects covered by opt outs were challenged.

[Tony-4497]

In practice, if the price was right how many people would object through the courts? I don't think that anyone actually knows, but it is not likely to be a huge number. I don't see legions of GC professionals coming back to farm their parents' or grandparents' plots of land.

I agree that if the price was right, then few would go to court.. but only if by "right" you mean a price that the owner actually accepted i.e. opted for this rather than keeping the property

Unfortunately, paying a fair market price is completely out of the question (unless land sharing is around 80:20, which Turks reject).. Turkey can't afford this (i.e. market values) and noone else is willing to pay for it.. so, yes, under the circumstances it would be legions who would be going to courts (even in the unlikely event that such a solution passed a referendum)

[YFred]

In practice, if the price was right how many people would object through the courts? I don't think that anyone actually knows, but it is not likely to be a huge number. I don't see legions of GC professionals coming back to farm their parents' or grandparents' plots of land.

I agree that if the price was right, then few would go to court.. but only if by "right" you mean a price that the owner actually accepted i.e. opted for this rather than keeping the property

Unfortunately, paying a fair market price is completely out of the question (unless land sharing is around 80:20, which Turks reject).. Turkey can't afford this (i.e. market values) and noone else is willing to pay for it.. so, yes, under the circumstances it would be legions who would be going to courts (even in the unlikely event that such a solution passed a referendum)

I hope these don't turn out to be the lost legions of the Roman empire, old chap.

[Sotos]

It’s a strange set of priorities when GCs seem quite happy to have land compulsory taken in exchange for payment for a road so that they can get to work 5 minutes earlier, but not to end 50 years of conflict.

To end the conflict by giving to you our properties? That would mean your reason of starting the conflict was achieved and you won. Forget about it. The only way to end the conflict is if you give back what you stole. We will not let you win this war.

To get to work 5 minutes faster by giving (nearer to selling) you our properties.
To end the conflict by giving (nearer to selling) you our properties.

Sounds pretty much the same to me. The only real difference is that after years of looking down on Turks and TCs, GCs can't stand the fact that they were beaten, so what is really being talked about is revenge. Not a recipe for a good outcome.

We were never beaten and we will never be. If you had won then you would have been able to force your terms. You can't. You occupy 36% of land we have the 100% of recognition. And our courts can now convict each and every one of you and have the ruling enforced in every EU country. This war has a long way go. If you thought you defeated us you are very wrong. If you want to end the conflict by selling to us your properties so you can move back to Turkey and end the problems you created by coming to our island then we don't mind paying to buy you out and end the conflict this way

[Byron]

Tony, I am not sure if the president will have a winning vote or not, but certainly the Cypriot people will not be able to take any important decision in a democratic way without the decision first being approved by Turkey. The whole of Cyprus will be under the control of Turkey as the pseudo state is today.

We made a compromise for a BBF, but that doesn't mean we should give to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. With any kind of BBF Turkey would probably maintain her influence over the north part of Cyprus, but we should be stupid to accept something that would give the power to Turkey to control the whole island.

The day Greek Cypriots accept such a plan is the day Cyprus and Hellenism dies forever ! OXI OXI OXI !

[Byron]

Almost every country in the EU had border changes in the last century, most of them because of conflict. I imagine that many people lost out. All seem to have been settled - well maybe not Kosova, although that's not in the EU (yet?). I, along with an increasing number of Turkish people, sincerely hope that you continue to block Turkey's entrance into a EU which now seems well past its sell-by date.

Kosova what is Kosova !! Do you mean land stolen from Serbia ?

[YFred]

Tony, I am not sure if the president will have a winning vote or not, but certainly the Cypriot people will not be able to take any important decision in a democratic way without the decision first being approved by Turkey. The whole of Cyprus will be under the control of Turkey as the pseudo state is today.

We made a compromise for a BBF, but that doesn't mean we should give to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. With any kind of BBF Turkey would probably maintain her influence over the north part of Cyprus, but we should be stupid to accept something that would give the power to Turkey to control the whole island.

The day Greek Cypriots accept such a plan is the day Cyprus and Hellenism dies forever ! OXI OXI OXI !

Byron,please wake up, Hellenism has been dead for some time. Has nobody told you? What did they teach you at school?
Do you all see what Hellenism means? Isn't this believed by most Greeks? 33% to be precise ( The TPapa supporters).
Yes Yes Yes.