Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

the way you talk its like you want us dead, then people react to it and it spreads more hate.

Noway I do not want anyone dead, really I have GC friends with whom I get on real well, as individuals you are fine but what I hate is your politics and the fact that you think you are a cut above the rest of us humans, we love this island as well but we will not capitulate to GC demands that will force us into minority status waiting for crumbs to fall of the GCs table, we are equals as people equals as states and equal partners, otherwise forget it we want no piece of your GC state run by GCs.

VP, don't you think your share of Cyprus is there for the grabbing? Too many people have a totally negative idea of partnership. How far back do the sins of the fathers go and the blame game go? As people we are all equal.

Eric its a matter of handing over your future over to people you do not trust due to our dark past...there has to be safeguards and guarantees to create an air of trust until it can be established properly over time.

Sure, but it takes courage to make that first step. It's Burns Night tonight, a time for the brotherhood of man (before the whisky renders me incapable). Believe me I know what went on because I've lived with people who suffered it, TC and GC, and spent time with people who handed it out, from Nicos Sampson to former TR soldiers. In my opinion there's no real appetite in Cyprus for bullying and aggression any more.

It's like Enosis - most Greeks supported the idea at one time but now it's dead. And yet some TCs still use Enosis as a reason they can never trust their brother and sister Cypriots again. And on the other side of the line GCs have very similar reasons why in their minds the only good Turk is one in Istanbul (yeah, I know about the T-shirts). It's about a sense of trust and common ownership rather than carving out and breaking parts off. Cyprus is like no other place in the world. I envy the stakeholders. Step forward and stake your claim.

How thats the problem, there is absolutely no trust thats why we can only step forward as long as w eknow we are not stepping in deep shit, we need a structure of safeguards and guarantees to make sure everyone knows exactly their role in a united Cyprus and are not allowed to distort it in anyway to benefit one side more than the other.

[Viewpoint]

paliometoxo

Thats good to hear.. but if you say we are ok people then it should be ok to live with us instead of splitting our island in two. I agree Equal rights Equal say for our island our being gc and tcs island. not a minority waiting for our crumbs instead thats what turkey is trying to do to us take full control while having two states that is worse then just partition two states under one. it has to be acceptable for both sides you cant just ignore the one sides needs thats not equal rights as you yourself say we should have in cyprus and i agree..

There is no problem with the idea of uniting under one roof but have a unitary state is out of the question that boat sailed a long time ago and the only way TCs would even consider unification is under a BBF with political equality of the 2 states which the Un also supports. You must not take this personally although we like you as people we do not trust you enough to hand our future and daily administration directly into your hands to do with as you wish just as I am sure you do not want to hand yours. We want to run our own state just as you do, so the BBF is the only way forward for us, anything else is unthinkable.

If forced into a unitary state with one man one vote structure your overwhelming 80% would put us at great risk and we would always be waiting for crumbs of the GC states table to survive, we are afraid that we would be reduced to second class citizens purely for being TCs.

I can only hope you can understand our concerns and see where I am coming from.

We are trying to unite the island and give tcs equal rights and equal say in every aspect of life and thats still not good enough for turkey who has all the say in the north.

How where have you offered these rights?

i dont like the politics of the north either the games they play, i like the tc people very much, some of my best friends are tcs as i have said many times. This just shows we can live together otherwise we would not even be friends with people on the other side.. not being able to live together to me says that if you do you would fight and kill eachother but your friends.. this is not hate it shows we can live together with peace and equal rights and no one as a majority.

Just being good friends does not mean you can run a country together we Cypriots need definate guide lines safeguards and guarantees that will make us perform to rule otherwise both sides will try to bend them in their favor, the only way we can compromise is via a BBF where everyone is free to live in which ever state they wish, the right to property is returned where posssible or compensaiton is paid and both states are politically equal, so one cannot move without the other. We have lived apart for to long to invade one another space we need time and understanding to build trust that will aloow us to be more flexible on issues that will beneift the whole island in the future but for now both sides do not trust the other.

Palio this was for you.

Are you going to comment Palio?

[paliometoxo]

yes i will VP one minute i will post this and edit and add more so you know i am

[paliometoxo]

Just being good friends does not mean you can run a country together we Cypriots need definate guide lines safeguards and guarantees that will make us perform to rule otherwise both sides will try to bend them in their favor, the only way we can compromise is via a BBF where everyone is free to live in which ever state they wish, the right to property is returned where posssible or compensaiton is paid and both states are politically equal, so one cannot move without the other. We have lived apart for to long to invade one another space we need time and understanding to build trust that will aloow us to be more flexible on issues that will beneift the whole island in the future but for now both sides do not trust the other.

At some point you have to let go of these myths of need safe guards and 40k army troops that would probably kill themselves trying to fight us.. sure they out number us but we have come a long way since 1960 and i dont buy this we need our own state because they will kill us or walk all over the mud with us and wont have any safety..

The turks are doing just that anyway, but thats ok since they are turkish right? if greece where doing the same thing turkey where no way in a million years would we accept it.

There is plenty of ways to safeguard the tcs and make sure that there is no political gain against them and there is no way the gcs could do anything the tcs where not happy with, we are both in cyprus so we are already living side by side. what the turks want is two states and power over ALL the island. the terms should be acceptable to the TCS of course

BUT that does not mean the gcs should be spit on and have nothing, the turks are trying to trample our rights and take over the island and on top of it all have two states.

If we work hard i know we can achieve a solution that makes both sides happy and getting along is a big part of living together under one "roof" so to say because the turks invaded because they say we where killing off tcs so they are scared of us and there needs to be two states, so if this is not the case and there is no reason to be scared then there is a big hope for this solution just by simply being good friends and not killing each other.

and putting up walls and asking for passports will not help build trust but will drive the communities further apart by making it official i mean

[EricSeans]

the way you talk its like you want us dead, then people react to it and it spreads more hate.

Noway I do not want anyone dead, really I have GC friends with whom I get on real well, as individuals you are fine but what I hate is your politics and the fact that you think you are a cut above the rest of us humans, we love this island as well but we will not capitulate to GC demands that will force us into minority status waiting for crumbs to fall of the GCs table, we are equals as people equals as states and equal partners, otherwise forget it we want no piece of your GC state run by GCs.

VP, don't you think your share of Cyprus is there for the grabbing? Too many people have a totally negative idea of partnership. How far back do the sins of the fathers go and the blame game go? As people we are all equal.

Eric its a matter of handing over your future over to people you do not trust due to our dark past...there has to be safeguards and guarantees to create an air of trust until it can be established properly over time.

Sure, but it takes courage to make that first step. It's Burns Night tonight, a time for the brotherhood of man (before the whisky renders me incapable). Believe me I know what went on because I've lived with people who suffered it, TC and GC, and spent time with people who handed it out, from Nicos Sampson to former TR soldiers. In my opinion there's no real appetite in Cyprus for bullying and aggression any more.

It's like Enosis - most Greeks supported the idea at one time but now it's dead. And yet some TCs still use Enosis as a reason they can never trust their brother and sister Cypriots again. And on the other side of the line GCs have very similar reasons why in their minds the only good Turk is one in Istanbul (yeah, I know about the T-shirts). It's about a sense of trust and common ownership rather than carving out and breaking parts off. Cyprus is like no other place in the world. I envy the stakeholders. Step forward and stake your claim.

How thats the problem, there is absolutely no trust thats why we can only step forward as long as w eknow we are not stepping in deep shit, we need a structure of safeguards and guarantees to make sure everyone knows exactly their role in a united Cyprus and are not allowed to distort it in anyway to benefit one side more than the other.

VP, I think there is enough trust out there but it has to be channelled the right way. Opinion polls would have Cyprus heading for permanent partition but that's what we hear when politicians don't behave like statesmen, aided and abetted by biased and partisan media. It's a vicious circle but the Cypriots aren't part of that loop. They can rise above it. This is 2010. Nobody is going to be herded into enclaves, death will not come knocking on Cypriots' doors and no part of the island will unite with a foreign motherland. The people won't stand for it. Some of the vitriol on this BB would suggest people will never come together but they can and will, just as members on here, no matter their background, support each other when it's needed.

[Viewpoint]

the way you talk its like you want us dead, then people react to it and it spreads more hate.

Noway I do not want anyone dead, really I have GC friends with whom I get on real well, as individuals you are fine but what I hate is your politics and the fact that you think you are a cut above the rest of us humans, we love this island as well but we will not capitulate to GC demands that will force us into minority status waiting for crumbs to fall of the GCs table, we are equals as people equals as states and equal partners, otherwise forget it we want no piece of your GC state run by GCs.

VP, don't you think your share of Cyprus is there for the grabbing? Too many people have a totally negative idea of partnership. How far back do the sins of the fathers go and the blame game go? As people we are all equal.

Eric its a matter of handing over your future over to people you do not trust due to our dark past...there has to be safeguards and guarantees to create an air of trust until it can be established properly over time.

Sure, but it takes courage to make that first step. It's Burns Night tonight, a time for the brotherhood of man (before the whisky renders me incapable). Believe me I know what went on because I've lived with people who suffered it, TC and GC, and spent time with people who handed it out, from Nicos Sampson to former TR soldiers. In my opinion there's no real appetite in Cyprus for bullying and aggression any more.

It's like Enosis - most Greeks supported the idea at one time but now it's dead. And yet some TCs still use Enosis as a reason they can never trust their brother and sister Cypriots again. And on the other side of the line GCs have very similar reasons why in their minds the only good Turk is one in Istanbul (yeah, I know about the T-shirts). It's about a sense of trust and common ownership rather than carving out and breaking parts off. Cyprus is like no other place in the world. I envy the stakeholders. Step forward and stake your claim.

How thats the problem, there is absolutely no trust thats why we can only step forward as long as w eknow we are not stepping in deep shit, we need a structure of safeguards and guarantees to make sure everyone knows exactly their role in a united Cyprus and are not allowed to distort it in anyway to benefit one side more than the other.

VP, I think there is enough trust out there but it has to be channelled the right way. Opinion polls would have Cyprus heading for permanent partition but that's what we hear when politicians don't behave like statesmen, aided and abetted by biased and partisan media. It's a vicious circle but the Cypriots aren't part of that loop. They can rise above it. This is 2010. Nobody is going to be herded into enclaves, death will not come knocking on Cypriots' doors and no part of the island will unite with a foreign motherland. The people won't stand for it. Some of the vitriol on this BB would suggest people will never come together but they can and will, just as members on here, no matter their background, support each other when it's needed.

Unfortunately you are wrong there is absolutely no trust thats why safeguards and guarantees are vital for TCs to move forward, we will not be demoted to minority status ruled by GCs. Steps are necessary to build confidence therefore trust but neither side is prepared to take the fist step. Only steps to generate more mistrust and harder views prevail and will ensure that no progess is ever made.

[Viewpoint]

paliometoxo

At some point you have to let go of these myths of need safe guards and 40k army troops that would probably kill themselves trying to fight us.. sure they out number us but we have come a long way since 1960 and i dont buy this we need our own state because they will kill us or walk all over the mud with us and wont have any safety..

Give me a reason to get rid of my need for protection, your purchase of arms hardly makes us feel secure or need to get rid of the TA. If you agree to get rid of your army and 100.000 or so armed reservists then we may be getting close to send the TA home.

Did you know how we were treated in the past 1963 to 1974, where were you then to fight for our rights because no one wanted to know or hear our cries for help.

The turks are doing just that anyway, but thats ok since they are turkish right? if greece where doing the same thing turkey where no way in a million years would we accept it.

You invited them here with your coup.

There is plenty of ways to safeguard the tcs and make sure that there is no political gain against them and there is no way the gcs could do anything the tcs where not happy with, we are both in cyprus so we are already living side by side. what the turks want is two states and power over ALL the island. the terms should be acceptable to the TCS of course

How will achieve what you claim? how will you protect our rights?

BUT that does not mean the gcs should be spit on and have nothing, the turks are trying to trample our rights and take over the island and on top of it all have two states.

Noway I as a TC would allow this.

If we work hard i know we can achieve a solution that makes both sides happy and getting along is a big part of living together under one "roof" so to say because the turks invaded because they say we where killing off tcs so they are scared of us and there needs to be two states, so if this is not the case and there is no reason to be scared then there is a big hope for this solution just by simply being good friends and not killing each other

Just being good friends is not enough neither side trusts the other that's why we are looking for a structure where we can live together in harmony but it appears GCs are insincere about wanting a BBF solution with political equality as supported by the UN, so what do you suggest we do to "live together" as the only reason why we are getting along right now is because we have to states and TCs live in the north and GCs in the south.

and putting up walls and asking for passports will not help build trust but will drive the communities further apart by making it official i mean

Without control at the borders how will we find who starts trouble, you will blame me and I will blame you. This way it deters any funny business and keeps a record of people crossing the border.