Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Oi, Rabid Carter, there's nothing wrong with my speeeling! and kindly show less interest in my profile, lest I start fearing you are involved with MI5 in some way.

Reh David, and seriously, when you say .... "....Putting aside the controversy over the Memorial to British soldiers in a Kyrenia cemetery .... " , you really ignore much of the reason for this thread, didn't the organisers foresee the outrage that this would cause when the they negotiated with the Illegal Regime over its placement in Occupied Kyrenia and ignored the wishes of the majority population and the Government of the Republic??

.... and the outrage hasn't been about respecting the fallen of a perceived former enemy. All will know that CYs have tremendous respect for the dead (May they rest in Peace). It's the dodgy dealings behind this memorial that is the problem.

Was this really the right way to go about things?

How many GCs would approve erecting a memorial monument for British soldiers, in South reh Billy? Under the already existing circumstances(which seems won't change for a long time) erecting such a memorial monument in North was indeed right. Perhaps they r planning to move the bases to North in the near future too. Please take no offence but these r the realities.

Union with Greece and/or a Greek-GC ruled Cyprus were not in interests of TCs, Brits and Turkey. They collaborated against the Greek-GC duo, struggled for the national interests of their country and in this struggle many prople lost their lives from all concerned parties.

[Expatkiwi]

I had read about what EOKA folk did to the British Forces in Cyprus in the 1950's. Guerilla tactics that were rather barbarous. When it comes to civil war or war against an occupation power, the doctrine of "the ends justifies the means" comes into play, but nontheless British forces were killed in Cyprus, and since now RoCy is supposed to be buddy-buddy with the UK, plus RoCy is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, why should there be any objection to a memorial of some kind?

[bill cobbett]

I had read about what EOKA folk did to the British Forces in Cyprus in the 1950's. Guerilla tactics that were rather barbarous. When it comes to civil war or war against an occupation power, the doctrine of "the ends justifies the means" comes into play, but nontheless British forces were killed in Cyprus, and since now RoCy is supposed to be buddy-buddy with the UK, plus RoCy is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, why should there be any objection to a memorial of some kind?

So it would be ok, you would raise no objection, if without discussing it with you, the Islamist Tellyban were to erect a memorial to their dead in a cemetery somewhere in Arkansas, USA? ... Or perhaps in Wooton Bassett, England?

[AWE]

I had read about what EOKA folk did to the British Forces in Cyprus in the 1950's. Guerilla tactics that were rather barbarous. When it comes to civil war or war against an occupation power, the doctrine of "the ends justifies the means" comes into play, but nontheless British forces were killed in Cyprus, and since now RoCy is supposed to be buddy-buddy with the UK, plus RoCy is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, why should there be any objection to a memorial of some kind?

So it would be ok, you would raise no objection, if without discussing it with you, the Islamist Tellyban were to erect a memorial to their dead in a cemetery somewhere in Arkansas, USA? ... Or perhaps in Wooton Bassett, England?

The campaign to build a memorial to the British dead has, inevitably, encountered stumbling blocks because of the island's turbulent recent history and the antipathy towards the British which still exists in some quarters. The Greek Cypriots turned down a request for the memorial to be sited on their part of the island, and because of the difficulty of accessing Wayne's Keep, it is impractical to site it there either.

Sir Michael Graydon said: "Our hope is that if there is a settlement in Cyprus which reunifies the island, the memorial will eventually find a permanent home at Wayne's Keep. With that in mind, it has been specifically designed to be movable, made in sections of granite."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... -land.html

The RoC was consulted it would appear.

I think that the ROC has shot themselves in the foot by on the one hand saying no to the monument and then complaining when it is built in the north, especially as the monument is designed to be moved when/if a settlement comes - after all that is what all the meetings between the two leaders have been about right?

[bill cobbett]

I had read about what EOKA folk did to the British Forces in Cyprus in the 1950's. Guerilla tactics that were rather barbarous. When it comes to civil war or war against an occupation power, the doctrine of "the ends justifies the means" comes into play, but nontheless British forces were killed in Cyprus, and since now RoCy is supposed to be buddy-buddy with the UK, plus RoCy is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, why should there be any objection to a memorial of some kind?

So it would be ok, you would raise no objection, if without discussing it with you, the Islamist Tellyban were to erect a memorial to their dead in a cemetery somewhere in Arkansas, USA? ... Or perhaps in Wooton Bassett, England?

The campaign to build a memorial to the British dead has, inevitably, encountered stumbling blocks because of the island's turbulent recent history and the antipathy towards the British which still exists in some quarters. The Greek Cypriots turned down a request for the memorial to be sited on their part of the island, and because of the difficulty of accessing Wayne's Keep, it is impractical to site it there either.

Sir Michael Graydon said: "Our hope is that if there is a settlement in Cyprus which reunifies the island, the memorial will eventually find a permanent home at Wayne's Keep. With that in mind, it has been specifically designed to be movable, made in sections of granite."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... -land.html

The RoC was consulted it would appear.

I think that the ROC has shot themselves in the foot by on the one hand saying no to the monument and then complaining when it is built in the north, especially as the monument is designed to be moved when/if a settlement comes - after all that is what all the meetings between the two leaders have been about right?

Don't think we should trust in the Old Guard GB Establishment Telegraph newspaper as a reliable source. It was leading the campaign to raise funds for this memorial and see the article refers to the Liberation Struggle of the '50s with uses of the deplorably innaccurate description "terrorist" - Enough said.

[Jimski999]

Mr Carter
I must bow to your superior knowledge on Wayne's keep though as I wrote; unfettered access isn't available and I have read (though unfortunately I can't find the reference) that it is the Turkish Army dictating the terms and conditions of access to the cemetery. I can't believe that the UN has produced a procedure on how to gain entrance to Wayne's Keep unless another party wants control over it.

[AWE]

I had read about what EOKA folk did to the British Forces in Cyprus in the 1950's. Guerilla tactics that were rather barbarous. When it comes to civil war or war against an occupation power, the doctrine of "the ends justifies the means" comes into play, but nontheless British forces were killed in Cyprus, and since now RoCy is supposed to be buddy-buddy with the UK, plus RoCy is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, why should there be any objection to a memorial of some kind?

So it would be ok, you would raise no objection, if without discussing it with you, the Islamist Tellyban were to erect a memorial to their dead in a cemetery somewhere in Arkansas, USA? ... Or perhaps in Wooton Bassett, England?

The campaign to build a memorial to the British dead has, inevitably, encountered stumbling blocks because of the island's turbulent recent history and the antipathy towards the British which still exists in some quarters. The Greek Cypriots turned down a request for the memorial to be sited on their part of the island, and because of the difficulty of accessing Wayne's Keep, it is impractical to site it there either.

Sir Michael Graydon said: "Our hope is that if there is a settlement in Cyprus which reunifies the island, the memorial will eventually find a permanent home at Wayne's Keep. With that in mind, it has been specifically designed to be movable, made in sections of granite."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... -land.html

The RoC was consulted it would appear.

I think that the ROC has shot themselves in the foot by on the one hand saying no to the monument and then complaining when it is built in the north, especially as the monument is designed to be moved when/if a settlement comes - after all that is what all the meetings between the two leaders have been about right?

Don't think we should trust in the Old Guard GB Establishment Telegraph newspaper as a reliable source. It was leading the campaign to raise funds for this memorial and see the article refers to the Liberation Struggle of the '50s with uses of the deplorably innaccurate description "terrorist" - Enough said.

So who do you trust?

Has the RoC said they were never consulted - I know a GC MP or MEP said if they had been they would have agreed but she is not the Govt. So unless the RoC comes out and say "we were never consulted and had we been we would have approved" they have lost the PR battle, and the more vociferously it is condemned in the RoC the better the TRNC will appear to some.

finally, as you well know one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter so the Torygraph's description is as valid as the RoC's.

[David Carter]

Dear Mr Halil

I'll download the photographs you posted, study them and come back to you with any info I can provide.

Dear Mr Cobbett

I try to know the backgrounds of those with whom I debate, so that I can understand their points of view better. You may tempt me, sir, but I won't be drawn into the controversy over the Memorial. At this stage, I merely want to clarify some points that have arisen in the course of submissions here. (See above). Nor will I resort to name-calling. That I leave to those who are short on good manners.

Dear Get Real

I'm sorry you saw my last post as an 'artificial sweetener' that 'cuts no ice' and that the website I edit is 'junk'. You can't please all the people all the time.

The BSW site sets out primarily to tell the story of the EOKA conflict through the eyes and experiences of mainly British service personnel. I try to leave it to others in others to debate the political arguments that brought about the Emergency. In the UK, as you will know, the military tries to stay out of politics and concentrate on the missions their elected politicians assign them. Not always easy as we can see from the current situation in Afghanistan.

Dear Jimski999


There was a time in the past when some visitors coming from the north to Wayne's Keep were stopped at Turkish Military checkpoints until their UN escorts arrived for them to continue their journey. Even in those times, sensible people met the UN at the Ledra Palace checkpoint. Now, with more entry/exit points open between North and South, there are fewer difficulties, although UNFICYP regulations continue to apply. (Last Saturday, 7 November 2009, a party of friends and relatives of the soldiers buried at Wayne's Keep laid wreaths. There was a short religious service, with the The Last Post played by a Royal Marine.)

* The Buffer Zone in Cyprus was negotiated by the UN with Greek Cypriot National Guard and Turkish Army representatives in August 1974 when a ceasefire was agreed by the conflicting parties.

* Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery rests in that BZ, which is controlled by UNFICYP. At present that role in the area of the cemetery falls to BRITCON - the UN's British contingent.

* The BZ runs for about 70 miles, starting on the north coast near Kokkina point, crosses the Troodos to reach Astromeritis. From there it continues through some of the Island's finest arable land and citrus producing areas until it reaches the eastern edge of Nicosia. Then it zig-zags and divides the capital, emerging near Omorphita. From there it cuts through the countryside again, until it stops at the perimeter of the eastern end of the British Sovereign Base at Dhekelia. It resumes on the far side, near Dherinia, until it reaches the coast south of Varosha Then an imaginary line begins, extending into the sea. This is known as the MSL - Maritime Security Line between North and South Cyprus waters. Neither side's vessels are supposed to cross the MSL.

* Part of the BZ is as narrow as a few feet (in parts of Nicosia) and several miles wider elsewhere, where parts are farmed still, but with the farmers escorted by UN soldiers (near Peristerona, for example). Nicosia Airport, too, is a UN "Protected Area'.

* Officially, nothing may be brought into the BZ or taken out, unless agreed and supervised by UN personnel. For example, there is a car showroom in the Nicosia BZ where cars that were brand new in 1974 remain gathering dust.

* The UN is solely responsible for who enters the BZ.

Some years ago, I was an official UN visitor and traveled the whole BZ. With permission of the Turkish Army, I was allowed also to enter Varosha - 'the forbidden city' - and travel at will, seeing what I wanted to see, as well as photographing interiors and exteriors of buildings. I have also traveled by sea to the Turkish Kokkina enclave.

Regards
David (Carter)

[Milo]

worldnews.com today reports on the landback offer by the UK and adds:-

The reported move comes as day after Dimitris Christofias, the Greek Cypriot president, said he was upset that a British veterans group chose the Turkish north for a memorial to their fallen comrades.

He said a privately funded monument to 371 servicemen killed during Greek Cypriot resistance to British colonial rule in the 1950s should not have been built on the island at all.

[B25]

Some years ago, I was an official UN visitor and traveled the whole BZ. With permission of the Turkish Army, I was allowed also to enter Varosha - 'the forbidden city' - and travel at will, seeing what I wanted to see, as well as photographing interiors and exteriors of buildings. I have also traveled by sea to the Turkish Kokkina enclave.

Regards
David (Carter)

Yes and this is why you chose to put down the GCs over the Turkish side. What other offers have they made you??

I always get suspicious when outsiders take such a biased one sided view, there is always something in it for them, whats yours??