AmericanGC wrote:The inter communal violence was started by the TMT(Turks), EOKA responded to TMT but EOKA was not formed to fight the Turks. It was formed for the independence of Cyprus from British rule and the unification with Greece(enosis). There is nothing unjust or immoral about a community of a majority over 80 percent ethnic Greeks wanting independence and unification with Greece.
Since EOKA was formed to unite Cyprus with Greece what kind of independence was it they fought for the people of Cyprus? How could Cyprus be independent under fascist rule of then Greece... This is a fairy tale for kids.
The EOKA armed struggle for Enosis was a direct threat for TC community. This is why TCs take side with Brits as police auxilaries and fought against EOKA. Later with support of Turkey, as how Greece supported EOKA's armed struggle; TCs established their own armed struggle by forming TMT and fought against EOKA in order to prevent Enosis. Our struggle was not only against Enosis but GC attempts to make us an ineffective minority in our homeland too.
In the begining of British Rule TCs constituted 1/3 of Cyprus population. The TC struggle against Enosis demands and GC domination started in the begining of the British rule.
Being 1/3 of Cyprus native inhabitants shouldn't be something to be ignored by Greeks and GCs but ur national front decided to ignore and wage an armed struggle in order to achieve their goal.
What's happened?
TCs with support of Turkey confronted and our retaliatory struggle led us today's situation.
Expatkiwi wrote:Your side tried to wipe the Turkish Cypriot presence off the island on more than one occasion. You think that was morally right, let alone legal? By those actions, your side forfeited its moral authority to govern all of the island. Or do you go by the logic that Greek crimes are 'prudent' whilst Turkish countermeasures are 'barbaric'?
You're gradually sinking back to the bollocks you were posting here in the old days!
Had you read the history of Cyprus, you would’ve discovered that the Turkish Cypriots have been committing atrocities against the indigenous Cypriots for over 400 years, so what you’re on about is a drop in the ocean!
To those TCs that have a grudge I have this to say…
DON’T COME TO CYPRUS BECAUSE NOBODY INVITED YOU HERE!
AmericanGC wrote:The inter communal violence was started by the TMT(Turks), EOKA responded to TMT but EOKA was not formed to fight the Turks. It was formed for the independence of Cyprus from British rule and the unification with Greece(enosis). There is nothing unjust or immoral about a community of a majority over 80 percent ethnic Greeks wanting independence and unification with Greece.
Since EOKA was formed to unite Cyprus with Greece what kind of independence was it they fought for the people of Cyprus? How could Cyprus be independent under fascist rule of then Greece... This is a fairy tale for kids.
The EOKA armed struggle for Enosis was a direct threat for TC community. This is why TCs take side with Brits as police auxilaries and fought against EOKA. Later with support of Turkey, as how Greece supported EOKA's armed struggle; TCs established their own armed struggle by forming TMT and fought against EOKA in order to prevent Enosis. Our struggle was not only against Enosis but GC attempts to make us an ineffective minority in our homeland too.
In the begining of British Rule TCs constituted 1/3 of Cyprus population. The TC struggle against Enosis demands and GC domination started in the begining of the British rule.
Being 1/3 of Cyprus native inhabitants shouldn't be something to be ignored by Greeks and GCs but ur national front decided to ignore and wage an armed struggle in order to achieve their goal.
What's happened?
TCs with support of Turkey confronted and our retaliatory struggle led us today's situation.
And that thieving Robin Hood and his legendary band of archers terrorised defenceless noblemen and battled the good sheriff of Nottingham and his men, under the pretext of robbing the rich to give to the poor.
That's why in 2009 Sherwood Forest can never be handed back to those naughty citizens of Nottingham, who provided sanctuary to those outlaws in green tights, once upon a time in ye olde England...
And Maid Marion remains hostage in King John's castle, until his demands are met.
Expatkiwi wrote:The recent postings here in this forum has made me wonder about a few things. As you all know, I support TRNC independence from the viewpoint of self-determination (as was stated in the text of the 1983 Unilateral Declaration of Independence). A state was formed as a result of the UDI, yet is treated as a pariah by most of the world. The end result is that the TRNC utterly relies on Turkey for its existance, which of course makes it more a dependency of Turkey than a sovereign state. The TRNC having its organs of governmental authority answerable to Ankara further erodes its independence. This makes me wonder if this is solely due to necessity, or is thinly disguised opportunism on behalf of the TRNC's protective power (Turkey). A besieged nation-state needs protection in order to survive. Israel is a prime example of that type of nation. Still, when does protection from a powerful ally turn into a controlling country treating the host nation as a colony? As Turkey is the only sovereign county to recognize the TRNC's independence, and as Turkey is the only conduit for the TRNC to the outside world, it can be argued that such a high level of control is inevitable, at least until other countries recognize the TRNC. The idealist in me understands this logic, but the example of Hatay's absorbance into Turkey has established a precedence for the possibility of Turkey's annexing TRNC in a similar fashion. The influx of Anatolian migrants lends credence to this argument. I'd like to think that Turkey would not annex the TRNC, but with the back-stabbing nature of realpolitik being ever-present, I am concerned at the eventual outcome. The choice - other than assured and respected independence and sovereignty for the TRNC - is either absorbion by Turkey, or absorbion by Southern Cyprus. Therefore, my idealism - like the TRNC - seems to lie between the rock and a hard place. I'm sure that a lot of you are having a good chuckle at that.
What other illegal enterprises do you also support, Expatkiwi?
You really strike me as an unwholesome character ...
Oracle, I beleive that the Greek side was at fault with the intercommunal conflict in 1963. By that, the Turkish Cypriots deserve to have their own part of the island to live in and be safe. What the GC's did in 1963, culminating in the coup in 1974 was unwholesome. Just being Greek in origin doesn't make whatever you do right.
You stupid Aussie prat. You know f all about the problems in Cyprus. Why dont you start from the beginning when the TC sided with the British and turned against the GC's. How many GC's did the TMT kill? Who planted boms against their own community and then blamed the GC's Get you facts straight.
I'm not saying TC's werent killed but you need to understand everything not just what the Turks say. They have no right to GC land.
AmericanGC wrote:The inter communal violence was started by the TMT(Turks), EOKA responded to TMT but EOKA was not formed to fight the Turks. It was formed for the independence of Cyprus from British rule and the unification with Greece(enosis). There is nothing unjust or immoral about a community of a majority over 80 percent ethnic Greeks wanting independence and unification with Greece.
Since EOKA was formed to unite Cyprus with Greece what kind of independence was it they fought for the people of Cyprus? How could Cyprus be independent under fascist rule of then Greece... This is a fairy tale for kids.
The EOKA armed struggle for Enosis was a direct threat for TC community. This is why TCs take side with Brits as police auxilaries and fought against EOKA. Later with support of Turkey, as how Greece supported EOKA's armed struggle; TCs established their own armed struggle by forming TMT and fought against EOKA in order to prevent Enosis. Our struggle was not only against Enosis but GC attempts to make us an ineffective minority in our homeland too.
In the begining of British Rule TCs constituted 1/3 of Cyprus population. The TC struggle against Enosis demands and GC domination started in the begining of the British rule.
Being 1/3 of Cyprus native inhabitants shouldn't be something to be ignored by Greeks and GCs but ur national front decided to ignore and wage an armed struggle in order to achieve their goal.
What's happened?
TCs with support of Turkey confronted and our retaliatory struggle led us today's situation.
Lets set some things straight Insan.
The Turks in Cyprus are just as native as the Turks in mainland Greece, Bulgaria, and every other territory the Ottomans conquered.
Here is the territories that the Ottomans occupied during there rule:
Please note that Cyprus was one of the last territories that the Ottomans occupied (till then Turkish population of Cyprus was 0%), so the history of the Turkish minority in Cyprus is much shorter than the history of equivalent Turkish minorities in other former Ottoman territories.
You can call yourself a native Cypriot if you want, but don't pretend to be more special or have more rights than any of the other Turkish minorities, because you don't. The same goes for the Greek minority in Turkey, who are more native to that territory than the Turks, and still they are just a minority with no right to determine the destiny of Turkey.
The Cypriot people had every right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of their own island, including to unite Cyprus with mainland Greece or with China if this is what we wanted (and if the other Greeks (or Chinese) wanted as well.
In fact the UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government. "
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
Your small minority did not have any right to overwrite the will of the majority of Cypriots, who are also 10 times more native than you are. Trying to tell us that you are also native does not entitle you to undemocratically impose your will on Cyprus. If that was the case then the Greek minority in Turkey should have been given 10 times more rights than the ones that you demand in Cyprus.
While the Cypriot people were fighting against the Colonialists for their freedom and their rights, your small minority collaborated with the foreign Imperialists and you attacked us starting the inter-communal conflict. You also started to demand things you had no right for such as the annihilation of the majority of Cypriot people from half of Cyprus.
The above happened in 1958. Those that claim that the inter-communal conflict was started in 1963 are lying and the facts prove their lies.
Last edited by Piratis on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Expatkiwi wrote:The recent postings here in this forum has made me wonder about a few things. As you all know, I support TRNC independence from the viewpoint of self-determination (as was stated in the text of the 1983 Unilateral Declaration of Independence). A state was formed as a result of the UDI, yet is treated as a pariah by most of the world. The end result is that the TRNC utterly relies on Turkey for its existance, which of course makes it more a dependency of Turkey than a sovereign state. The TRNC having its organs of governmental authority answerable to Ankara further erodes its independence. This makes me wonder if this is solely due to necessity, or is thinly disguised opportunism on behalf of the TRNC's protective power (Turkey). A besieged nation-state needs protection in order to survive. Israel is a prime example of that type of nation. Still, when does protection from a powerful ally turn into a controlling country treating the host nation as a colony? As Turkey is the only sovereign county to recognize the TRNC's independence, and as Turkey is the only conduit for the TRNC to the outside world, it can be argued that such a high level of control is inevitable, at least until other countries recognize the TRNC. The idealist in me understands this logic, but the example of Hatay's absorbance into Turkey has established a precedence for the possibility of Turkey's annexing TRNC in a similar fashion. The influx of Anatolian migrants lends credence to this argument. I'd like to think that Turkey would not annex the TRNC, but with the back-stabbing nature of realpolitik being ever-present, I am concerned at the eventual outcome. The choice - other than assured and respected independence and sovereignty for the TRNC - is either absorbion by Turkey, or absorbion by Southern Cyprus. Therefore, my idealism - like the TRNC - seems to lie between the rock and a hard place. I'm sure that a lot of you are having a good chuckle at that.
What other illegal enterprises do you also support, Expatkiwi?
You really strike me as an unwholesome character ...
Oracle, I beleive that the Greek side was at fault with the intercommunal conflict in 1963. By that, the Turkish Cypriots deserve to have their own part of the island to live in and be safe. What the GC's did in 1963, culminating in the coup in 1974 was unwholesome. Just being Greek in origin doesn't make whatever you do right.
As I have shown above the inter-communal conflict was started by the TCs in 1958. And in 1974 it was the Turks again who started the inter-communal killings. Coops happened in many countries, and several coops happened in Turkey as well. No TC was killed during the coup. It is the Turks who started the killings in 1974, just like they had done in 1958 (and just like they had done in 1571, 1821 and everything in between). We only (involuntarily) participated in the wars and conflicts the Turks started against us, trying to defend nothing more and nothing less than our human and democratic rights.
So it is the Cypriot people who need to be saved from the Turks, not the other way around.
Expatkiwi wrote:Your side tried to wipe the Turkish Cypriot presence off the island on more than one occasion. You think that was morally right, let alone legal? By those actions, your side forfeited its moral authority to govern all of the island. Or do you go by the logic that Greek crimes are 'prudent' whilst Turkish countermeasures are 'barbaric'?
You're gradually sinking back to the bollocks you were posting here in the old days!
Had you read the history of Cyprus, you would’ve discovered that the Turkish Cypriots have been committing atrocities against the indigenous Cypriots for over 400 years, so what you’re on about is a drop in the ocean!
To those TCs that have a grudge I have this to say…
DON’T COME TO CYPRUS BECAUSE NOBODY INVITED YOU HERE!
You still don't get what I'm trying to say, GR: I'm saying that partition eliminates intercommunal conflict, but if formalizing the partition means annexation of the TRNC to Turkey, then its a lose-lose situation for the Turkish Cypriot people. You of all people have been saying to look at the whole picture, but conspicuoulsy absent from this has been the events of 1963-65. How do you reconcile that with your view that the Turkish side is solery responsible for what happened in Cyprus?
To all the GC on this forum, the responses from the Turks on here are incomprehensible runoff of the bone resin that occupies their craniums. It's like trying to hold a discussion with a mental patient. I have never seen such ignorance than the writings of the Turks on here. It gives me a better understanding of what President Christofias and anyone else has gone through trying to communicate with the Turkish.
When I served in the US military I was in Turkey and served joint operations with the TAF. It was a mind numbing experience and we often felt like beating our heads against the wall. The average TAF officer had the mentality of a misguided teenager.
AmericanGC wrote:The inter communal violence was started by the TMT(Turks), EOKA responded to TMT but EOKA was not formed to fight the Turks. It was formed for the independence of Cyprus from British rule and the unification with Greece(enosis). There is nothing unjust or immoral about a community of a majority over 80 percent ethnic Greeks wanting independence and unification with Greece.
Since EOKA was formed to unite Cyprus with Greece what kind of independence was it they fought for the people of Cyprus? How could Cyprus be independent under fascist rule of then Greece... This is a fairy tale for kids.
The EOKA armed struggle for Enosis was a direct threat for TC community. This is why TCs take side with Brits as police auxilaries and fought against EOKA. Later with support of Turkey, as how Greece supported EOKA's armed struggle; TCs established their own armed struggle by forming TMT and fought against EOKA in order to prevent Enosis. Our struggle was not only against Enosis but GC attempts to make us an ineffective minority in our homeland too.
In the begining of British Rule TCs constituted 1/3 of Cyprus population. The TC struggle against Enosis demands and GC domination started in the begining of the British rule.
Being 1/3 of Cyprus native inhabitants shouldn't be something to be ignored by Greeks and GCs but ur national front decided to ignore and wage an armed struggle in order to achieve their goal.
What's happened?
TCs with support of Turkey confronted and our retaliatory struggle led us today's situation.
Lets set some things straight Insan.
The Turks in Cyprus are just as native as the Turks in mainland Greece, Bulgaria, and every other territory the Ottomans conquered.
Here is the territories that the Ottomans occupied during there rule:
Please note that Cyprus was one of the last territories that the Ottomans occupied (till then Turkish population of Cyprus was 0%), so the history of the Turkish minority in Cyprus is much shorter than the history of equivalent Turkish minorities in other former Ottoman territories.
You can call yourself a native Cypriot if you want, but don't pretend to be more special or have more rights than any of the other Turkish minorities, because you don't. The same goes for the Greek minority in Turkey, who are more native to that territory than the Turks, and still they are just a minority with no right to determine the destiny of Turkey.
The Cypriot people had every right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of their own island, including to unite Cyprus with mainland Greece or with China if this is what we wanted (and if the other Greeks (or Chinese) wanted as well.
In fact the UN resolution for decolonization clearly defines "free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government. " http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
Your small minority did not have any right to overwrite the will of the majority of Cypriots, who are also 10 times more native than you are. Trying to tell us that you are also native does not entitle you to undemocratically impose your will on Cyprus. If that was the case then the Greek minority in Turkey should have been given 10 times more rights than the ones that you demand in Cyprus.
While the Cypriot people were fighting against the Colonialists for their freedom and their rights, your small minority collaborated with the foreign Imperialists and you attacked us starting the inter-communal conflict. You also started to demand things you had no right for such as the annihilation of the majority of Cypriot people from half of Cyprus.
The above happened in 1958. Those that claim that the inter-communal conflict was started in 1963 are lying and the facts prove their lies.
Minorities on ex-Ottoman/Turkish territories? Piratis there r 6 independent Turkish states and a dozen of Federations that Turks r one of the components on those territories. This is the REALITY.
It does not matter whether these Turks r natives of those territories for 450 years or 4500 years. Because of various reasons, they struggled for independence, a sovereign country, a federation or autonomy and achieved it. This is the REALITY.
The Turkic states (all of them in Asia) are Turkic because the majority of the population in those states is Turkic. In Cyprus you are a minority in all parts of this island.
You can have your independence, sovereign country and everything else you want but not on OUR land. Go find your own land to have your country on because you have no right to take ours and we will NEVER give it to you.
The Turkic states (all of them in Asia) are Turkic because the 
