Cyprus-Forum.com

[Floda]

I think GGs comparison with Christianity and Judaism was never going to win the argument, simply because they don't, in this day and age, preach hate and intolerance.

I absolutely agree with what you state here Me Ed, they do not preach hatred and intolerance.

"THEY PRACTISE IT !"

Have a look at Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq and numerous other areas of our strife torn world for the evidence of such.

[Me Ed]

I think GGs comparison with Christianity and Judaism was never going to win the argument, simply because they don't, in this day and age, preach hate and intolerance.

I absolutely agree with what you state here Me Ed, they do not preach hatred and intolerance.

"THEY PRACTISE IT !"

Have a look at Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq and numerous other areas of our strife torn world for the evidence of such.

Floda do not confuse the will of the Government with the will of the people.

Public opinion in the UK (for example) is wanting a halt to these conflicts.

We may be pawns in a corrupt government, but in the UK I can go about my business freely 1000% less fear than in Iraq and Afghanistan, where its actualy the muslims that are killing muslims - there's your evidence.

Yes, the west started these conflicts, but what kind of mentality then compels the Islamists in these countries to then turn on their own people - it is simply not justifiable!

I will continue to update this thread on these Islamist atrocities - the West's alleged atrocities are well documented in GR's numerous threads.

[Floda]

Floda do not confuse the will of the Government with the will of the people.

Public opinion in the UK (for example) is wanting a halt to these conflicts.

Yes, the west started these conflicts, but what kind of mentality then compels the Islamists in these countries to then turn on their own people - it is simply not justifiable!
.

Me Ed, I assure you that I do not confuse the UK Government's will with that of the people, nor am I unaware of the fact that Public Opinion in the UK (and many places elsewhere) would wish an end to the conflicts.

Unfortunately, such is the determination of Western powers to subjugate/control/manipulate and force democracy upon other weaker nations, they completely ignore the will of the people.

The 'Anti-attack' worldwide demonstrations of public opinion prior to the unlawful and murderous assault on the defenceless sleeping civilian population of Baghdad, is evidence enough of how little regard for the opinions of the general public, Western powers have.

As to the mentality of the 'Islamists' (as you choose to describe them) one can only speculate that desperation, fear and a profound longing for deliverance may have driven (and still drives) them to commit the dreadful deeds they have done and will do.

It is a hard task for one outside of the faith of such people to understand just how they must despise ANYTHING that is not conducive with their beliefs, easier perhaps for them to die and take the lives of their own, rather than leave them behind to face the aforementioned subjugation by those powers which THEY consider to be culturally inferior to themselves.

The Jews of 'Masada', famously killed each other rather than surrender to the Romans, their action was regarded as a great victory over oppression and they have been honoured for such action, I do wonder if it is possible to make comparisons.

I really think the word subject of 'Self Sacrifice' and ALL it's connotes, should be given a little more in depth consideration, it is so easy to be instantly dismissive. IMHO.

[Get Real!]

...in Iraq and Afghanistan, where its actualy the muslims that are killing muslims - there's your evidence.

The only evidence I see from your sweeping unfounded statement is that you’re an idiot...

[Get Real!]

This is for that immature little Greek punk Simon…


Opium, Rape and the American Way

“The warlords we champion in Afghanistan are as venal, as opposed to the rights of women and basic democratic freedoms, and as heavily involved in opium trafficking as the Taliban. The moral lines we draw between us and our adversaries are fictional. The uplifting narratives used to justify the war in Afghanistan are pathetic attempts to redeem acts of senseless brutality. War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... rican_way/

[YFred]

English Woman converts to Muslim Religion, after all christians don't slash husbands' throats.

Wife 'slashed husband's throat' after aphrodisiac-fuelled woodland tryst
Joanne Hale denies attempted murder in Bristol park before running off to meet man she met on the internet
A woman lured her husband into woodland after giving him a natural aphrodisiac before slitting his throat and leaving him for dead, then going to pick up another man she had met on the internet, a court heard today .
Joanne Hale, 39, gave husband Peter, 43, an aphrodisiac called "horny goat weed", blindfolded him and led him into woods. The pair kissed, cuddled and "rolled about on the leaves" as part of an apparently "playful game", Bristol crown court heard.
But Hale then straddled her husband as he lay face down and slit his throat with a knife, leaving a 12cm (4.5in) long wound, before plunging it into his neck and chest several times, it was claimed.
Hale allegedly abandoned her husband when she was disturbed by a passerby and drove to a nearby railway station to see for the first time a man she met on the web.
Police arrested her when she returned to the marital home in Stapleton, Bristol. Hale denies attempted murder and wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.
The attack allegedly happened on 27 December last year. The couple, who had been married for nine years, were watching television when Hale suggested her husband take the natural aphrodisiac, also known as "rowdy lamb herb".
Peter Hale told the jury: "I think both of us discussed how to prepare it. Jo said it was quite unpalatable and I said I would like a drink with it."
At about 6pm they left home and walked to Stoke Park in the dark. The husband said: "We went through the kissing gates, then on the cobbled path. I felt absolutely fine. Jo didn't like it around there; she believes in spiritual things, the paranormal, and she was getting bad vibes from it.
"We had a cuddle and a bit of rolling about in the leaves," he said. "I was happy at that point. There was something involving a stick; I thought it was a playful game. It was a bit odd."
He told the court his memory is "hazy" from this point onwards but he remembers seeing his wife and a man before waking up in hospital.
The court heard that Hale, a published poet, came up behind her husband, slashed his throat with a knife and stabbed him several times in the neck and chest.
She was allegedly disturbed by passer-by Timothy Walker and left, claiming she did not know who Peter was or what had happened to him.
She then drove to Bristol Parkway railway station where she had arranged to pick up postal worker Philip Sudol, a man she had met on the internet.
Hale allegedly told Sudol she was separated but her husband had injured himself and she would get the blame.
The Hales had been penpals before they married. But the couple were affected by stress after Peter Hale "totally messed up" his studies for a PhD at the University of the West of England in Bristol.
The trial continues.

As to who are the terrorists and who are the victims, it's just too dificult to understand, so we'll wait a while until you guys wise up a little.

[Simon]

This is for that immature little Greek punk Simon…


Opium, Rape and the American Way

“The warlords we champion in Afghanistan are as venal, as opposed to the rights of women and basic democratic freedoms, and as heavily involved in opium trafficking as the Taliban. The moral lines we draw between us and our adversaries are fictional. The uplifting narratives used to justify the war in Afghanistan are pathetic attempts to redeem acts of senseless brutality. War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... rican_way/

Don't for one second think that what you posted above speaks for me, or the vast majority of Brits or Americans for that matter, because I do not champion any warlord. Neither incidentally, have I ever heard the British government champion any warlords. If the Western governments are trying to ally themselves to the warlords, then it is fairly clear why. Perhaps, once again, your naivety blinds you.

So was this stupid little two-bit website you have found supposed to put me in my place? The word of God is it? Or just one person's opinion, who happens to see the world in the skewed fashion you do? It is not even relevant to my posts, as I, unlike you, do not post silly one-sided messages full of baseless conspiracy. I recognise the mistakes and machinations of the West, as well as the brutal tyranny of the Taliban and Islamic fundamentalism in general.

You really must get a life outside of this forum GR because you are honestly quite pathetic.

[Get Real!]

This is for that immature little Greek punk Simon…


Opium, Rape and the American Way

“The warlords we champion in Afghanistan are as venal, as opposed to the rights of women and basic democratic freedoms, and as heavily involved in opium trafficking as the Taliban. The moral lines we draw between us and our adversaries are fictional. The uplifting narratives used to justify the war in Afghanistan are pathetic attempts to redeem acts of senseless brutality. War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... rican_way/

Don't for one second think that what you posted above speaks for me, or the vast majority of Brits or Americans for that matter, because I do not champion any warlord. Neither incidentally, have I ever heard the British government champion any warlords. If the Western governments are trying to ally themselves to the warlords, then it is fairly clear why. Perhaps, once again, your naivety blinds you.

So was this stupid little two-bit website you have found supposed to put me in my place? The word of God is it? Or just one person's opinion, who happens to see the world in the skewed fashion you do? It is not even relevant to my posts, as I, unlike you, do not post silly one-sided messages full of baseless conspiracy. I recognise the mistakes and machinations of the West, as well as the brutal tyranny of the Taliban and Islamic fundamentalism in general.

You really must get a life outside of this forum GR because you are honestly quite pathetic.

You like a wide variety of websites do you? You must've missed this...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24023

[Simon]

This is for that immature little Greek punk Simon…


Opium, Rape and the American Way

“The warlords we champion in Afghanistan are as venal, as opposed to the rights of women and basic democratic freedoms, and as heavily involved in opium trafficking as the Taliban. The moral lines we draw between us and our adversaries are fictional. The uplifting narratives used to justify the war in Afghanistan are pathetic attempts to redeem acts of senseless brutality. War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... rican_way/

Don't for one second think that what you posted above speaks for me, or the vast majority of Brits or Americans for that matter, because I do not champion any warlord. Neither incidentally, have I ever heard the British government champion any warlords. If the Western governments are trying to ally themselves to the warlords, then it is fairly clear why. Perhaps, once again, your naivety blinds you.

So was this stupid little two-bit website you have found supposed to put me in my place? The word of God is it? Or just one person's opinion, who happens to see the world in the skewed fashion you do? It is not even relevant to my posts, as I, unlike you, do not post silly one-sided messages full of baseless conspiracy. I recognise the mistakes and machinations of the West, as well as the brutal tyranny of the Taliban and Islamic fundamentalism in general.

You really must get a life outside of this forum GR because you are honestly quite pathetic.

You like a wide variety of websites do you? You must've missed this...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24023

When I posted my first comments on this thread, I stated that I did not want to engage in a long drawn out debate about this. I understand that many people's views on the Forum are very anti-American, and I did not want to become embroiled in it all. I am sure you can find many anti-US websites out there. The US has made many enemies. You see, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The US is hated, just like every other superpower that has ever existed. The British were hated (still are), the Romans were hated, Persians were hated, etc etc. Therefore, I am not about to start debating in your endless West hating threads, as quite frankly, I don't have the time, nor do I care all that much. Some of the points you and Floda make are quite reasonable, others, are quite preposterous. I entered this thread because I felt a particular post by Floda should be challenged. I noticed that Floda's replies did not debate or deal with the content of my posts specifically, but continued to talk very generally about the issues, and referring to matters off topic, without really addressing the points I made. Therefore, with Paphitis' words ringing in my ears, I decided not to waste any more of my time on it. Then you come waging into the debate not making any sense at all - as per usual, blinded by hatred. You wouldn't be GR if there wasn't a conspiracy theory somewhere, no matter how ridiculous. I questioned your logic, and you were not able to reply.

So this will be my final post on this thread, it is not worth any more of my time.

[Lit]

So many "martyrs" blowing themselves up for the religion of peace must find Allah experiencing a shortage of virgins for rewarding his brave warriors. By now, they must be receiving virgin rabbits. Ah well, maybe they'll appreciate a change from goats and donkeys.

Such compelling condemnation of every action which takes the lives of the innocent whenever a 'Suicide Bomber' demonstrates his/her determination (at the cost of his /her own life) to resist oppression.

YET.

Not one protest at the murderous actions of the American, British and Israeli military forces which have (and are) slaughtered (slaughtering) many thousands MORE of the innocent in their campaigns of violence against those who do not wish to adopt their decadent ideologies.

How base of members to constantly ridicule the superior tenets of those who only seek to follow their traditions without the unlawful interference of society's which have only military might to commend their existence.

How significant that the tenets of Islam has seen such growth in recent years and YES, there are many thousands among THOSE faithful who are prepared to sacrifice their lives in order to resist oppression, at least (in death) they have a dignity (according to their beliefs) that WE of the West can NEVER achieve.

I wonder how many members (particularly among the most vociferous) would have the courage to sacrifice THEIR lives for that which they believe in.

Without being 'Ordered' to of course.

I really do not wish to enter into a long drawn out debate with you on this, but I am compelled to reply, as quite frankly I am dismayed by the content of your post. A very eloquent writer you are, but I am afraid severely lacking in many other departments (in my humble opinion of course ). Let us take each of your paragraphs in turn:

Such compelling condemnation of every action which takes the lives of the innocent whenever a 'Suicide Bomber' demonstrates his/her determination (at the cost of his /her own life) to resist oppression.

Firstly, many suicide bombers are/were not blowing themselves up to resist the occupation (or 'oppression'), especially in Iraq. Even the vast majority of the British troops that are dying in Helmand for instance are killed by IEDs. Most of these suicide bombers (especially in Iraq) were actually blowing themselves up in markets filled with women and children, areas packed with civilians, even mosques, in revenge attacks on certain religious communities or rival tribes. It is a type of power struggle with the intention of destabilising the country.

Furthermore, the Taliban are not liked nor supported by most in Afghanistan. This is not a case of ISAF occupying Afghanistan and the majority of Afghans resisting, it is a case of the Taliban (a brutal oppressive regime) trying to regain power in Afghanistan, and the average Afghan does not know who to put his or her trust in, for fear of later reprisals if he or she chooses the wrong side. Therefore, your black and white over simplistic view of invader/resister is a little unsophisticated and jejune.

Not one protest at the murderous actions of the American, British and Israeli military forces which have (and are) slaughtered (slaughtering) many thousands MORE of the innocent in their campaigns of violence against those who do not wish to adopt their decadent ideologies.

I must say, that I have yet to read you condemn or protest at the evil deeds of the suicide bombers, rather you apparently support their struggle, and continuously condemn the British, Americans and Israelis, so you can hardly accuse others of one-sided posts. You refer to the West's decadent ideologies, without any mention of the reprehensible and malevolent dogma of those they face.

How base of members to constantly ridicule the superior tenets of those who only seek to follow their traditions without the unlawful interference of society's which have only military might to commend their existence.

This is where your post borders on the ridiculous if I may say so. Superior tenets? Of the Taliban? Or perhaps we should broaden this to fundamentalist Islamic states in general, like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Syria etc. Let's take the Taliban, a regime which does not believe women should be allowed to drive or even be educated at all? That believes limbs should be amputated for crimes not all that serious, such as petty theft? That believes a man should be able to starve his wife if she refuses sex? That support the actions and aims of Al Qaeda? That would allow training camps for people to become terrorists and kill innocent civilians intentionally? That does not believe in democracy, free speech, the rule of law, human rights, or any other civil code of conduct for that matter? That believes a woman's word is worth only one quarter of that of a man, and would therefore need four male witnesses to prove any claim of rape, otherwise she should be stoned for committing adultery? Now I am not for a single second suggesting the West is perfect, far from it, but to argue the Taliban, or other states that impose strict Sharia law, have 'superior tenets' to the West is quite frankly absurd, and is a sad reflection on your own personality.

How significant that the tenets of Islam has seen such growth in recent years and YES, there are many thousands among THOSE faithful who are prepared to sacrifice their lives in order to resist oppression, at least (in death) they have a dignity (according to their beliefs) that WE of the West can NEVER achieve.

Islam is growing at such a pace because of the higher birth rates amongst Muslims due to a lack of birth control, the fact is more people are actually converting to Christianity than Islam. Not that this really matters, because the size of a religion is not necessarily indicative of its "superior tenets" as you would perhaps like to believe. If it were so, Buddhism would have many more followers than what it currently does.

Further, why can't we in the West achieve dignity in our sacrifice I wonder? All those British and American men (and women) killed have no dignity in your eyes? I wonder why. Your views are typical of an Al Qaeda sympathising West hater. It comes through in every one of your posts. No doubt that you believe because your views differ from the mainstream, somehow you are a superior being, who has attained a higher level of intelligence which the masses of Sun and Star readers can never muster. Unfortunately, the truth is rather different, for you are no more enlightened than they are, because you are blinded by arrogance (IMHO of course ).

I ask you, if the West is so bad, why don't you live in one of these superior Muslim countries where a woman is not allowed outside her home without a male accompanying her, I am sure you would be much more contented with such "superior tenets". You never know your luck, perhaps you could even muster the courage to receive your 72 virgins, and ensure that the ISAF's task is just that little more arduous.

I wonder how many members (particularly among the most vociferous) would have the courage to sacrifice THEIR lives for that which they believe in.

What makes you think you have the right or insight to challenge any member's courage or dignity, especially when you hardly know any of them. Many countries in the West have proven their courage over many years, with people fighting valiant causes and sacrificing their lives, struggling for a cause far more nobler than the forced subservience to Sharia law, which is what the Taliban are aiming for.

Without being 'Ordered' to of course. :wink

Britain and the US have fully professional armed forces. No member is forced to join, and every member understands the possibility of going to war. Their sacrifice is voluntary, and for you to play these peoples' achievements down is quite aversive.

Bump up. Great post, my brother.