Cyprus-Forum.com

[cymart]

This is the major obstacle in Cyprus!People are very Conservative and wary of change,often because of fear and insecurity-better the devil you know etc!Of course those with power and influence fear that change will deprive them of what they enjoy now and this is why they are so strongly opposed to any moves that might alter the situation..all changes involve risks and people fear them,although Cypriots are among the most avid gamblers I have ever seen when it comes to betting and casinos etc!

[RichardB]

Cymart, let me put it in another way. Here in the "free" south we may not have a foreign occupation army. However, we do have an internal occupation army. This is the army that stands against progress, reform, modernisation, for solution will inevitably bring on these forbidden fruits to our island.

Bananiot

How can you say this??

An internal occupation Army?

I assume that you are talking about a democratically elected govt?

An army that stands against progress , reform and modernisation??

This would be the same govt that has taken CY into the EU and onto the world stage

As GR has said ''solution ''

=To call it a “solution” before it even gets approved, implemented, and tested, is nothing short of propaganda because it suggests a premature success!

Also, when we say that certain people “don’t want a solution” what we’re really saying is that certain people “don’t agree with my version of what I consider to be a solution” don’t we?

The likes of you just make the problems worse

[Piratis]

I did not refer to Famagusta or anything else in my posting yet they dragged it up!

You tried to equate the vast majority of Cypriots who reject your kind of "solutions" with "greedy developers", "slimy lawyers and accountants" and "lying politicians", when in fact it is you who is motivated exclusively by greed since all you care is how to get your wife's property in Famagusta and you don't care at all about officially giving 30% of Cyprus to the Turks and making the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey.

The truth is that very few people in the south care about a solution because they feel that there would be nothing in it for them!

If there is nothing in this "solution" for Cypriots, then whose problem is this "solution" going to solve? The problem of the EU accession of Turkey and the isolation of TCs? Sorry but that is not our problem, and the solution to the Cyprus problem should solve our problem as well, otherwise it can not be called a "solution". We care about a solution that solves OUR problems.

People with a problem normally care to see it solved. Perhaps we have a fixation with solution but the word solution having a fixed meaning really tickles my imagination.

Can someone elaborate and inform us of all the different meanings of this "abused" word?

Glad you asked Bananiot, because the way you realize what "solution" means is vastly different from what I and the majority of Cypriots believe.

The way most of us realize the meaning of the word "solution" is that it actually solves the problems that we have. E.g. if we have a problem with hard drags in our society because a large amount of youth use such substances then a solution is the one which eliminates or at least substantially minimizes the use of these drugs. This is how I realize the solution to this problem. On the other hand it seems that for you a "solution" can also be legalizing the use of such hard drags, and even promoting them in our schools as something perfectly normal. More people would die from drugs and the negative consequences to society would be even more than before, but according to your kind of logic we wouldn't have a "drugs problem" anymore, since the use of hard drugs would then be legal and not thought as a problem (by you) anymore.

Do I have the magic solution that will eliminate or minimize the use of hard drags? No. Will the use of hard drugs increase in the future despite our efforts? Maybe - but having a successful result is also a possibility in the long term. Do I want to legalize the use of hard drugs and in this way have illusions that there is no problem anymore while in fact the problem will be bigger? Definitely not!

Bananiot, you think you are a realist, but in fact you are not. I am the realist. I know what the real problem is, I know what the real solution to the problem is, and I know that a solution is not possible under the current balance of power. You on the other hand prefers the illusion that empty words such as "solution" and "unification" offer to you, when in reality what you support not only will not solve or unite anything but on the contrary it will legalize the partition of Cyprus and create more problems than the few that it will solve.

[Piratis]

This is the major obstacle in Cyprus!People are very Conservative and wary of change,often because of fear and insecurity-better the devil you know etc!Of course those with power and influence fear that change will deprive them of what they enjoy now and this is why they are so strongly opposed to any moves that might alter the situation..all changes involve risks and people fear them,although Cypriots are among the most avid gamblers I have ever seen when it comes to betting and casinos etc!

When you are gambling you at least have some chance, even a tiny one, of actually gaining something.

We wouldn't gable our democratic and human rights (sorry that we are so "conservative") but even if we were stupid enough to do so, we would do it only if there was a good chance of gaining something. With the "solution" you support most Cypriots will be worst off than they are now with 100% certainty.

[Piratis]

Cymart, let me put it in another way. Here in the "free" south we may not have a foreign occupation army. However, we do have an internal occupation army. This is the army that stands against progress, reform, modernisation, for solution will inevitably bring on these forbidden fruits to our island.

The "solution" you support will bring Apartheid and legalize ethnic cleansing. This is what you call progress and modernization?

Progress and modernization means to end all these anachronistic racist discriminations imposed on us since the Ottoman times, and have a free and democratic Cyprus with equal citizens, like it is the case in all modern democracies.

[YFred]

I did not refer to Famagusta or anything else in my posting yet they dragged it up!

You tried to equate the vast majority of Cypriots who reject your kind of "solutions" with "greedy developers", "slimy lawyers and accountants" and "lying politicians", when in fact it is you who is motivated exclusively by greed since all you care is how to get your wife's property in Famagusta and you don't care at all about officially giving 30% of Cyprus to the Turks and making the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey.

The truth is that very few people in the south care about a solution because they feel that there would be nothing in it for them!

If there is nothing in this "solution" for Cypriots, then whose problem is this "solution" going to solve? The problem of the EU accession of Turkey and the isolation of TCs? Sorry but that is not our problem, and the solution to the Cyprus problem should solve our problem as well, otherwise it can not be called a "solution". We care about a solution that solves OUR problems.

People with a problem normally care to see it solved. Perhaps we have a fixation with solution but the word solution having a fixed meaning really tickles my imagination.

Can someone elaborate and inform us of all the different meanings of this "abused" word?

Glad you asked Bananiot, because the way you realize what "solution" means is vastly different from what I and the majority of Cypriots believe.

The way most of us realize the meaning of the word "solution" is that it actually solves the problems that we have. E.g. if we have a problem with hard drags in our society because a large amount of youth use such substances then a solution is the one which eliminates or at least substantially minimizes the use of these drugs. This is how I realize the solution to this problem. On the other hand it seems that for you a "solution" can also be legalizing the use of such hard drags, and even promoting them in our schools as something perfectly normal. More people would die from drugs and the negative consequences to society would be even more than before, but according to your kind of logic we wouldn't have a "drugs problem" anymore, since the use of hard drugs would then be legal and not thought as a problem (by you) anymore.

Do I have the magic solution that will eliminate or minimize the use of hard drags? No. Will the use of hard drugs increase in the future despite our efforts? Maybe - but having a successful result is also a possibility in the long term. Do I want to legalize the use of hard drugs and in this way have illusions that there is no problem anymore while in fact the problem will be bigger? Definitely not!

Bananiot, you think you are a realist, but in fact you are not. I am the realist. I know what the real problem is, I know what the real solution to the problem is, and I know that a solution is not possible under the current balance of power. You on the other hand prefers the illusion that empty words such as "solution" and "unification" offer to you, when in reality what you support not only will not solve or unite anything but on the contrary it will legalize the partition of Cyprus and create more problems than the few that it will solve.

Piratis, I am glad you compared Cyprus Problem to the drugs problem because it is exactly the same as the Cyprus problem in every way.

All the politicians do is criminalise it and hope that it goes away. But it does not, it puts in to the hands of the criminals, which means that criminals become very rich with it and the people suffer because what they buy is sub-standard and it kills people. This was done in USA with prohibition of alcohol and it had the same effect.

The solution to that problem is to legalise it, control its strength and sell it through chemists at an appropriate price and then use the profit to educate those who wish to come off it. Then problem will be solved. This was tried in Glasgow in one are some years ago, where it was free at the clinics and the burglary in that are during that time reduced by 95%. But the politicians still go on with the same old lie and the problem gets bigger.

Does that ring a bell with the Cyprus Problem, with politicians lying for 35 years and the problem getting bigger?

[Paphitis]

Are you now coaching GR? He was specifically referring to the word solution, idiot (again) and he seemed to get fed up by a variety of people using this word ad nauseum.

Let me cheer you up a bit. Believe it or not, I too would prefer a European solution, better than the Annan Plan a thousand times and miles better than the 1959 agreements.

If you can tell us how we can achieve this solution, even if the chances of success are minimal, then count me in too.

Abandon the negotiations. Actually, that is not a good idea. Just get bogged down until Eroglu abandons the talks for us.

THEN, provide the interests for others to intervene. If the right countries intervene, the TA will just withdraw with very little resistance. In fact, they would probably even allow Turkey the opportunity to save face and state that it is withdrawing to further peace and stability within the region and to also further its EU ambitions.

Oil and Gas is the key...

[YFred]

Cymart, let me put it in another way. Here in the "free" south we may not have a foreign occupation army. However, we do have an internal occupation army. This is the army that stands against progress, reform, modernisation, for solution will inevitably bring on these forbidden fruits to our island.

Bananiot

How can you say this??

An internal occupation Army?

I assume that you are talking about a democratically elected govt?

An army that stands against progress , reform and modernisation??

This would be the same govt that has taken CY into the EU and onto the world stage

As GR has said ''solution ''

=To call it a “solution” before it even gets approved, implemented, and tested, is nothing short of propaganda because it suggests a premature success!

Also, when we say that certain people “don’t want a solution” what we’re really saying is that certain people “don’t agree with my version of what I consider to be a solution” don’t we?

The likes of you just make the problems worse

Richard you should know better than that. The army is the anti solutionists who have control of the media and propagate the old lies and continue the anti-solution propaganda. The debate in the media in Cyprus is the laughing stock of the EU. If you call that democratic, you really are testing the bounds of democracy.
How do you have democracy without fair access to the media for all points of view?

[Piratis]

I did not refer to Famagusta or anything else in my posting yet they dragged it up!

You tried to equate the vast majority of Cypriots who reject your kind of "solutions" with "greedy developers", "slimy lawyers and accountants" and "lying politicians", when in fact it is you who is motivated exclusively by greed since all you care is how to get your wife's property in Famagusta and you don't care at all about officially giving 30% of Cyprus to the Turks and making the whole of Cyprus a puppet of Turkey.

The truth is that very few people in the south care about a solution because they feel that there would be nothing in it for them!

If there is nothing in this "solution" for Cypriots, then whose problem is this "solution" going to solve? The problem of the EU accession of Turkey and the isolation of TCs? Sorry but that is not our problem, and the solution to the Cyprus problem should solve our problem as well, otherwise it can not be called a "solution". We care about a solution that solves OUR problems.

People with a problem normally care to see it solved. Perhaps we have a fixation with solution but the word solution having a fixed meaning really tickles my imagination.

Can someone elaborate and inform us of all the different meanings of this "abused" word?

Glad you asked Bananiot, because the way you realize what "solution" means is vastly different from what I and the majority of Cypriots believe.

The way most of us realize the meaning of the word "solution" is that it actually solves the problems that we have. E.g. if we have a problem with hard drags in our society because a large amount of youth use such substances then a solution is the one which eliminates or at least substantially minimizes the use of these drugs. This is how I realize the solution to this problem. On the other hand it seems that for you a "solution" can also be legalizing the use of such hard drags, and even promoting them in our schools as something perfectly normal. More people would die from drugs and the negative consequences to society would be even more than before, but according to your kind of logic we wouldn't have a "drugs problem" anymore, since the use of hard drugs would then be legal and not thought as a problem (by you) anymore.

Do I have the magic solution that will eliminate or minimize the use of hard drags? No. Will the use of hard drugs increase in the future despite our efforts? Maybe - but having a successful result is also a possibility in the long term. Do I want to legalize the use of hard drugs and in this way have illusions that there is no problem anymore while in fact the problem will be bigger? Definitely not!

Bananiot, you think you are a realist, but in fact you are not. I am the realist. I know what the real problem is, I know what the real solution to the problem is, and I know that a solution is not possible under the current balance of power. You on the other hand prefers the illusion that empty words such as "solution" and "unification" offer to you, when in reality what you support not only will not solve or unite anything but on the contrary it will legalize the partition of Cyprus and create more problems than the few that it will solve.

Piratis, I am glad you compared Cyprus Problem to the drugs problem because it is exactly the same as the Cyprus problem in every way.

All the politicians do is criminalise it and hope that it goes away. But it does not, it puts in to the hands of the criminals, which means that criminals become very rich with it and the people suffer because what they buy is sub-standard and it kills people. This was done in USA with prohibition of alcohol and it had the same effect.

The solution to that problem is to legalise it, control its strength and sell it through chemists at an appropriate price and then use the profit to educate those who wish to come off it. Then problem will be solved. This was tried in Glasgow in one are some years ago, where it was free at the clinics and the burglary in that are during that time reduced by 95%. But the politicians still go on with the same old lie and the problem gets bigger.

Does that ring a bell with the Cyprus Problem, with politicians lying for 35 years and the problem getting bigger?

So you think there is no problem with alcohol abuse in the USA today because it is legalized? Sorry but you couldn't be further from the truth. Are you suggesting they should legalize Heroin as well?

Legalizing such substances does not solve the problem. As you said they might do it sometimes so the government can gain control over their distribution. But in the case of Cyprus the criminals will not allow any arrangement that will take away their control and transfer it to the Cypriot government. On the contrary they want to control the government as well. Imagine Al Capone being the president of the USA!

[Piratis]

How do you have democracy without fair access to the media for all points of view?

What point of view does not have fair access to the media? Please note that fair access does not mean that party that has 0.5% of the votes to get 50% of the airtime.