The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Debate about rotating presidency and weighted votes.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Debate about rotating presidency and weighted votes.

Postby YFred » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:32 pm

Did anybody watch this program and can we have some feedback please.

GR and the rest of the military loonies read the paragraph on the military inbalance.
Why we need fools in this world
By Loucas Charalambous

ONE of the best texts on stupidity was penned by the sociologist Evangelos Lembesis (1906-1968) who had it published in The Journal of Greek Lawyers, in 1941, under the headline ‘The immense social significance of the fool in contemporary life’.

I do not know whether Lembesis published his article in the lawyers’ journal because he wanted to make a point about the big presence of the species in the profession. What I do know is that among lawyers, political stupidity is rife.

I watched last Tuesday’s much-talked about studio debate about rotating presidency and weighted voting on Antenna TV and I would like to offer a piece of advice to Toumazos Tselepis, the president’s adviser, who walked out of the show, when his fellow panellists started questioning his qualifications and suitability for the job.

A serious professional should not subject himself humiliation by opting to face the concentrated political stupidity of four lawyers and a TV presenter. Has he not heard that stupidity – political or otherwise – is invincible?

If he is still wondering why he had become the target of the other studio guests and the presenter, Lembesis provides an answer in his article. “The simple presence of an intelligent person is, as a rule, provocative in the extreme to the fool.”

Lembesis said he had not sought any other literature for his study, because “truly, the wealth of empirical evidence is huge.” This ‘wealth’ was on display on Antenna’s show.

One of the guests, Christos Triantafyllides, considered it an outrage to have improved a provision included in the Annan plan. His reasoning was that, as the plan had been rejected, an improvement of one of its provision was totally out of order.

In other words, any settlement plan must be brand new. Even the use of words found in the 9,000 pages of that plan must be prohibited. Perhaps we should invent a new alphabet for writing the new settlement deal, because if we use the traditional alphabet the agreement would stink.

The fact that just a year after the referendum, then President Tassos Papadopoulos drafted a list of 12 changes he wanted made to the Annan plan in order to accept it in its entirety, seems to be of no significance to Triantafyllides. Why this political star is an adviser to DISY leader Nicos Anastassiades nobody knows.

A young lawyer by the name of Giorgos Christodoulou, who was also a guest on the show, for unknown reasons, made an astonishing revelation. Rotating presidency was not a proposal made by Christofias: it was made by the Turks. He repeated the phrase ‘proposal of the Turks’ about 10 times.

In other words, for this ambitious legal-eagle, a peace agreement, that would have to be accepted by the Turkish Cypriots, as it would determine their future as well, cannot include a provision that is based on their proposal. Is this, such a crime? Was he suggesting that all the provisions of the deal must be dictated by the Greek Cypriots, because we are smarter?

A big bombshell was dropped in the studio by another Anastassiades adviser – former New Horizons deputy Christos Clerides. With the settlement, he said, Turkey wanted, at all costs, to dissolve our state and govern us Greeks through the Turkish Cypriot vice-president.

Nobody appears to have informed Clerides that Turkey has two army divisions in Cyprus that could crush us within a few hours – and they will continue to have them for as long as the legions of fool oppose a settlement. In short, if Ankara wanted to dissolve our state, it could do so much more effectively with the occupation army rather than through a Turkish Cypriot vice-president.

Fools had great usefulness, Lembesis observed, because with their presence they ensured some kind of differentiation in society – its division into the intelligent and the stupid. Without their existence there would be equality and everyone would be considered intelligent. I think this is more relevant in reference to political stupidity. Tselepis should take solace from the fact that if this were the case, he would not have stood out.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby zan » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:05 pm

I think it is dangerous to dismiss these people as fools Fred....More like a calculated PR attempt for the Ultra nationalists. "We" had a similar attempt with the GC lawyer who represents the Orams, but instead of putting four bright lawyers in front of him we put Bayramoglu. What a disaster :roll:
User avatar
zan
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 16213
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:55 pm

Postby Gregory » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:21 pm

zan wrote:I think it is dangerous to dismiss these people as fools Fred....More like a calculated PR attempt for the Ultra nationalists. "We" had a similar attempt with the GC lawyer who represents the Orams, but instead of putting four bright lawyers in front of him we put Bayramoglu. What a disaster :roll:


I'm always amused at people who have no knowledge of the image they portray to others. Good example here with Zan commenting on those "Ultra Nationalists". :lol:

We can't all have your moderate liberal concessionist views Zan.
User avatar
Gregory
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:11 pm

Postby YFred » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:40 pm

Gregory wrote:
zan wrote:I think it is dangerous to dismiss these people as fools Fred....More like a calculated PR attempt for the Ultra nationalists. "We" had a similar attempt with the GC lawyer who represents the Orams, but instead of putting four bright lawyers in front of him we put Bayramoglu. What a disaster :roll:


I'm always amused at people who have no knowledge of the image they portray to others. Good example here with Zan commenting on those "Ultra Nationalists". :lol:

We can't all have your moderate liberal concessionist views Zan.

What would be constructive is to hear how many on the panel were for the idea and how many against and was the chair biased or not? Did they have a fair discussion or did all 4 inc the chair turn on the President’s representative. What about the mention of 10 times regarding this being a Turkish Idea, was that corrected? Is that a common occurrence for the president's representative walking out of a debate?
Just some basic truths wouldn’t go amiss to see how things are debated on the fairer and free side of the Cyprus divide.
Any ideas?
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Bananiot » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:04 pm

Yes, I watched it. Toumazos Tsielepis, a fervent supported of peaceful coexistence and a vociferous critic of the rejectionists gave a recital on Tuesday and on Friday at the state tv. You see, the rejectionists are trying to bring back the "good old days" of the ambient atmosphere when anyone who supported solution was accused of taking money from the dreaded angloamericans in order to sell their country.

This time round things are different and the culprits will find it very difficult to sell their lies. However, slowly but surely the rejectionists are coming out into the open and Loukaides did admit on Friday that the Makarios-Denktash and Kyprianou-Denktash high level agreements should be scraped because we should no longer go for bicommunal, bizonal federation.
User avatar
Bananiot
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6397
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Nicosia

Postby YFred » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:07 pm

Bananiot wrote:Yes, I watched it. Toumazos Tsielepis, a fervent supported of peaceful coexistence and a vociferous critic of the rejectionists gave a recital on Tuesday and on Friday at the state tv. You see, the rejectionists are trying to bring back the "good old days" of the ambient atmosphere when anyone who supported solution was accused of taking money from the dreaded angloamericans in order to sell their country.

This time round things are different and the culprits will find it very difficult to sell their lies. However, slowly but surely the rejectionists are coming out into the open and Loukaides did admit on Friday that the Makarios-Denktash and Kyprianou-Denktash high level agreements should be scraped because we should no longer go for bicommunal, bizonal federation.

What about the debate itself, was it fair by EU standards?
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Bananiot » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:17 pm

Of course not, by any standards. Tsielepis had to face four bigots and the presenter all by himself.
User avatar
Bananiot
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6397
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Nicosia

Postby Piratis » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:49 pm

Well, I hope Loucas Charalambous is receiving a large amount of money from the Turks (and the British who sponsor Cyprus-Mail) otherwise if he is offering his services to these Imperialists for free then he must be the biggest fool ever.

...a fervent supported of peaceful coexistence and a vociferous critic of the rejectionists...


Bananiot, let me ask you something. Is there anything that is worth fighting for? Freedom? Democracy? Human Rights? Or we should surrender everything for the sake of peace and become slaves of the Turks again?

Just because you have a slave mentality and you accept to give up freedom, democracy and human rights, you can't expect the majority of the population to be like you. So the people who reject what a slave like you accepts, are actually the people who have some dignity. No decent person would be an acceptionist.

The acceptionists can be categorized in 3 groups:

1) Masochists, like Bananiot, who have slave mentality and like to be treated as second category humans.
2) Traitors, like Loucas Charalambous
3) Fools, who fall for empty words such as "unification" and "solution" when in fact the essence of what is proposed is official partition and more problems than what we have now.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Bananiot » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:55 pm

What took you so long Piratis? Care to prove your accusations in court? Put your money where your mouth is?
User avatar
Bananiot
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6397
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Nicosia

Postby Get Real! » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:06 pm

Bananiot wrote:Yes, I watched it. Toumazos Tsielepis, a fervent supported of peaceful coexistence and a vociferous critic of the rejectionists gave a recital on Tuesday and on Friday at the state tv.

Peaceful coexistence? :? What do you think we are here on Cyprus? Marine animals like penguins (GCs) and sea lions (TCs) who must share a patch of rock during the mating season while David Attenborough (Turkey) overlooks the peace? :lol:

You see, the rejectionists are trying to bring back the "good old days" of the ambient atmosphere when anyone who supported solution was accused of taking money from the dreaded angloamericans in order to sell their country.

Are you saying that NOBODY on Cyprus accepted “incentives” from foreigners leading up to the AP referendum to support and promote it?

This time round things are different and the culprits will find it very difficult to sell their lies. However, slowly but surely the rejectionists are coming out into the open and Loukaides did admit on Friday that the Makarios-Denktash and Kyprianou-Denktash high level agreements should be scraped because we should no longer go for bicommunal, bizonal federation.

Cyprus is a sovereign country; a recognized UN member, and signatory to myriads of international agreements pertaining to her status, whereas the Turkish Cypriots are a small community of citizens, who for various reasons and events from 50 years ago decided to segregate themselves, so don't ever confuse who is who and what is what!
Last edited by Get Real! on Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

Next

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests