Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

dp

Uh ohh, Deniz, don't do it. Even if Oracle is wrong, you can not win this.

Back away slowly and go back to playing with GR!. Quickly, tell him what a good little Cherickidian he is! Yeah, maybe GR will start another anti-Hellenic thread for you if you do....

Its the little things in life that bring real joy, right Deniz?

She is persistent, I'll give her that. I love to see her.............squirm. Without loosing her rag.

[Kifeas]

"Has he even stopped to think what it would mean to have for 2 years in every term a Cyprus President that is fully controlled by Turkey??"

That is the purpose of the cross communal voting, to stop either motherland from having undue political influence in the choice of the two leaders.

If you believe that the TC President will not be FULLY controlled by Turkey, then you do not understand much about the composition of the "TC" population post-solution (i.e. settlers will be a majority) or the role that the TC community has played in Cyprus throughout its (short) history on the island - or Turkey's history for that matter.

Your views on this are clearly shared by Christofias, which is the worrying part.

It is in our capacity, during negotiations, not to accept the settlers -or at least the vast majority of them, to stay and obtain citizenship. This, with the fact that at least 20% of the electorate for the election of the TC VP will originate from the GC community, should provide the necessary safeguards to avoid what you suggest, although personally I have my doubts. Christofias initial proposal to elect the two presidents on a common ticket, like in the US, was a much better proposal from which he should not have backed down.

[-mikkie2-]

I think that Christophias should have stood his ground on the common ticket for president as it would force Tc and Gc parties to form common manifestos and enhance cooperation between communities. I think he is gambling on getting concessions on land so we have to see how that goes. In my mind, the Tc's will have to make significant concessions here.

[Oracle]

These are all proposals and Christofias has already categorically stated that all the proposals will be nullified if the fundamental conditions for a settlement are not met. He can afford to be as "generous" as he likes with these proposals because Turkey will never accept the most basic condition which is removal of its "guarantorship" (already violated) after its withdrawal of Turkish troops and settlers ... These little "gifts" mean nothing to Turkey if it cannot have full control of Cyprus as a military base, either through occupation or guarantorship, (effectively) governmentship ...

[YFred]

dp

Uh ohh, Deniz, don't do it. Even if Oracle is wrong, you can not win this.

Back away slowly and go back to playing with GR!. Quickly, tell him what a good little Cherickidian he is! Yeah, maybe GR will start another anti-Hellenic thread for you if you do....

Its the little things in life that bring real joy, right Deniz?

She is persistent, I'll give her that. I love to see her.............squirm. Without loosing her rag.

What on earth do you mean Deniz? I didn't know O has taken to wearing rags I thought she was a rich bitch.

[zan]

These are all proposals and Christofias has already categorically stated that all the proposals will be nullified if the fundamental conditions for a settlement are not met. He can afford to be as "generous" as he likes with these proposals because Turkey will never accept the most basic condition which is removal of its "guarantorship" (already violated) after its withdrawal of Turkish troops and settlers ... These little "gifts" mean nothing to Turkey if it cannot have full control of Cyprus as a military base, either through occupation or guarantorship, (effectively) governmentship ...

You ignore the basic rule of : It is better to give than to receive: Agent O...Obviously you do not subscribe to that human condition!!

[denizaksulu]

These are all proposals and Christofias has already categorically stated that all the proposals will be nullified if the fundamental conditions for a settlement are not met. He can afford to be as "generous" as he likes with these proposals because Turkey will never accept the most basic condition which is removal of its "guarantorship" (already violated) after its withdrawal of Turkish troops and settlers ... These little "gifts" mean nothing to Turkey if it cannot have full control of Cyprus as a military base, either through occupation or guarantorship, (effectively) governmentship ...

Basically, what you are saying is that these talks are a waste of time (as it stands). Damn it; we are in agreement again.

[YFred]

These are all proposals and Christofias has already categorically stated that all the proposals will be nullified if the fundamental conditions for a settlement are not met. He can afford to be as "generous" as he likes with these proposals because Turkey will never accept the most basic condition which is removal of its "guarantorship" (already violated) after its withdrawal of Turkish troops and settlers ... These little "gifts" mean nothing to Turkey if it cannot have full control of Cyprus as a military base, either through occupation or guarantorship, (effectively) governmentship ...

Basically, what you are saying is that these talks are a waste of time (as it stands). Damn it; we are in agreement again.

Deniz, give them a chance. Let us see how our nationalists feel about Muhtar X by December.

[Piratis]

"Has he even stopped to think what it would mean to have for 2 years in every term a Cyprus President that is fully controlled by Turkey??"

That is the purpose of the cross communal voting, to stop either motherland from having undue political influence in the choice of the two leaders.

If you believe that the TC President will not be FULLY controlled by Turkey, then you do not understand much about the composition of the "TC" population post-solution (i.e. settlers will be a majority) or the role that the TC community has played in Cyprus throughout its (short) history on the island - or Turkey's history for that matter.

Your views on this are clearly shared by Christofias, which is the worrying part.

It is in our capacity, during negotiations, not to accept the settlers -or at least the vast majority of them, to stay and obtain citizenship. This, with the fact that at least 20% of the electorate for the election of the TC VP will originate from the GC community, should provide the necessary safeguards to avoid what you suggest, although personally I have my doubts. Christofias initial proposal to elect the two presidents on a common ticket, like in the US, was a much better proposal from which he should not have backed down.

In my opinion the Settlers is not the main factor that would make a TC president controlled by Turkey.

The main factor is that under any unfair solution that would benefit the TCs on our expense, the TCs will be indebted to Turkey. A TC president elected in some undemocratic way will not own his position to the Cypriot people, but he will own his position to Turkey which used brute force and blackmail in order to enforce some undemocratic system which would allow her own puppets to have control over Cyprus. This means that such president would first and above all serve the interests of Turkey, not those of Cyprus.

And don't hope that the TCs will forget their debt to Turkey after such "solution". They will not forget their debt because they will know full well that if Turkey stops bullying Cypriots, then gradually democracy and human rights will be restored in Cyprus and they would lose the unfair privileges that they would be granted against us.

It is the same thing as we have now with Talat, or whoever else is the pseudo president. Talat knows that without brute force by Turkey there is no "trnc". And without "trnc" he can not be a "president". He knows that he owns his position to Turkey, that means he is indebted to Turkey, and that makes him a puppet of Turkey.

This is the real problem on this topic. The settlers are a problem in terms of the forceful change of demographics, but they are not the main lever that Turkey has to control the TCs.

[denizaksulu]

These are all proposals and Christofias has already categorically stated that all the proposals will be nullified if the fundamental conditions for a settlement are not met. He can afford to be as "generous" as he likes with these proposals because Turkey will never accept the most basic condition which is removal of its "guarantorship" (already violated) after its withdrawal of Turkish troops and settlers ... These little "gifts" mean nothing to Turkey if it cannot have full control of Cyprus as a military base, either through occupation or guarantorship, (effectively) governmentship ...

Basically, what you are saying is that these talks are a waste of time (as it stands). Damn it; we are in agreement again.

Deniz, give them a chance. Let us see how our nationalists feel about Muhtar X by December.

I will, I will, as Halil did promise a surprise. I cant wait.