Cyprus-Forum.com

[Gregory]

Whats with the swearing at people?

[denizaksulu]

For Greek readers, a beautiful piece written by Nikos Dimou last July

Πατριδολάτρης αντιεθνικιστής...

…έτσι θα χαρακτήριζα τον εαυτό μου. Ερωτευμένος με την πατρίδα μου αλλά ριζικά αντίθετος με την ιδέα του «Έθνους».

Ξέρω ότι πολλοί επιπόλαια ή σκόπιμα μπερδεύουν αυτές τις δύο έννοιες. Όμως απέχουν χιλιόμετρα.

Πατρίδα είναι ο προσωπικός εσωτερικός και εξωτερικός μου χώρος. Ο τόπος που γεννήθηκα, η παιδική μου ηλικία, η γλώσσα μέσα στην οποία μεγάλωσα. Η παράδοση, οι αναμνήσεις, οι φίλοι. Το οικείο και το συγκεκριμένο.

Το έθνος (κι ακόμα περισσότερο το «έθνος-κράτος») είναι μία υπεριστορική αφηρημένη ιδέα – μία «φαντασιακή κοινότητα» (Andersen), ένα μεταφυσικό μόρφωμα που διακρίνεται από την συσπείρωση κατά των εχθρών του (αναγκαίοι) και την αίσθηση υπεροχής. Αριστοκράτες των λαών, Μεγάλη Ιδέα, κλπ.

Όποιος αγαπάει την πατρίδα του, αποδέχεται και τις πατρίδες των άλλων – ο εθνικιστής όμως τις αρνείται. Δεν μπορεί να καταλάβει ότι και ο Τούρκος έχει πατρίδα.

Σε ένα έθνος χωράνε πολλές πατρίδες (σκεφθείτε: ΗΠΑ, Ελβετία) αλλά σε μία πατρίδα κανένα έθνος. Γιατί το αφηρημένο εξατμίζεται μπροστά στο συγκεκριμένο.

Οι πατρίδες υπήρχαν πάντα. Τα έθνη εφευρέθηκαν στο τέλος του 18ου αιώνα. (Μερικοί είπαν: για να μην πληρώνουν οι βασιλιάδες και τα κράτη μισθοφόρους… Μέχρι τότε κανείς δεν πολεμούσε «για την πατρίδα και την σημαία» - αλλά για τον άρχοντα ή/και το χρήμα του).

It all sounds nice and peaceful but unfortunately REAL patriotism (the kind needed to shed your blood for your country if you have to) is borne out of “ethnos” and not “homeland”!

If all citizens were just the homeland type they’d all be like you, ready to enter into ridiculous political arrangements with the enemy until they’re totally extinct!

For a man who specializes in Biology (the science of life/existence) you seem to have missed the very essence of what you’ve been teaching all these years!

GR, you say, 'REAL patriotism (the kind needed to shed your blood for your country if you have to) is borne out of “ethnos” and not “homeland”!

Dont you think that your 'Real Patriotism' is borne out of your 'ETHNOS' is what has brought Cyprus to the state it finds itself in?

Had the 'Patriotism' been towards the 'Homeland' by all parties, we would be happy together - As Cypriots. I doubt your sincerity about your 'Chiroikitian' claims now . What a shame.

Perhaps I live in the land of make believe.

[Bananiot]

Forgive him Deniz, for he does not know what in heaven he is talking about.

[denizaksulu]

Forgive him Deniz, for he does not know what in heaven he is talking about.

I am always forgiving Bananiot, but others dont share this quality with us.

Greek Cyps would always keep their Hellenic Culture regardless - so would the Turkish Cyps - in spite of our 'minority' in numbers. IMO.

[Get Real!]

Dont you think that your 'Real Patriotism' is borne out of your 'ETHNOS' is what has brought Cyprus to the state it finds itself in?

Yes, because it was the WRONG ethnos!!! (Greek or Turkish)

Had Cypriot Nationalism reigned supreme we couldn’t possibly go wrong!

[Get Real!]

Forgive him Deniz, for he does not know what in heaven he is talking about.

It’s you that everyone’s worried about…

[Nikitas]

"Τα έθνη εφευρέθηκαν στο τέλος του 18ου αιώνα."

Naions were invented at the end of the 18th century. Says Nikos Dimou with no offer of proof. The sense of nationhood was present well before the 18th century. Alexander rallied the Greeks by invoking the sense of nationhood.

Nations are not mere constructs with no substance. If there was no substance which serves some organic need then nations would dissolve. And those that have no substance often do. Nation states are bound together by the things that Nikos Dimou adores about Greece, a sense of commonality, shared values and culture. It is no accident that Turkey has tried hard to extinguish this sense of commonality, forcing TCs to adopt surnames, changing the place names with mainland Turkish names, attempting to ban TC dialect in the media. Something similar, but not so universal, was attempted in the 60s on the GC side.

I would add another dimension to patriotism, one that you can see when you travel. People who truly love their country tend to treat it well. Which is why Austria is clean and well taken care of and the south of Italy is not. The Austrian lives in a society which allows him to feel that his surroundings belong to him and are worth taking care of. I am sure Greek intellectuals of the urbane, keep things at arms length type, like Nikos Dimou would be horrified at the prospect of taking care of the land. That is usually a duty to be delegated to others, to anyone but themselves.

[Lit]

For Greek readers, a beautiful piece written by Nikos Dimou last July

Where is the Cherickidian version?

I am going to need my Greek to Cherickidian multi-language dictionary for this.

[Get Real!]

For Greek readers, a beautiful piece written by Nikos Dimou last July

Where is the Cherickidian version?

I am going to need my Greek to Cherickidian multi-language dictionary for this.

You should be alright because those fluent in the Spartan dialect never have any language barriers...