Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

[Omer Seyhan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

[zan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

[Omer Seyhan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

[zan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

Do you think that we could keep the North without Turkey?

[Omer Seyhan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

Do you think that we could keep the North without Turkey?

The basis for negotiation at present is a bi-communal, bi-zonal (federal) state with political equality. This means a G/C and a T/C constituent state that are equal within a single federal state. In this set up the north will be a T/C constituent state which will be recognised as a T/C constituent state within the federal rep of Cyprus.

Each constituent state will govern areas it has power over, these may include education, public services, policing. At the federal level - issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence (Nato etc) will be decided by the Federal govt. Naturally there would be other areas that are decided by Brussels - Monetary issues (Money) as Cyprus is in the Eurozone.

At present, the TRNC is not a T/C state. It is a Turkish vassal state where T/C actually have little power and remain isolated. Furthermore, settlers outnumber us and will inevitably take over the TRNC and replace the T/Cs as a political force. The above UN solution is a better set up for the T/Cs without a doubt.

[zan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

Do you think that we could keep the North without Turkey?

The basis for negotiation at present is a bi-communal, bi-zonal (federal) state with political equality. This means a G/C and a T/C constituent state that are equal within a single federal state. In this set up the north will be a T/C constituent state which will be recognised as a T/C constituent state within the federal rep of Cyprus.

Each constituent state will govern areas it has power over, these may include education, public services, policing. At the federal level - issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence (Nato etc) will be decided by the Federal govt. Naturally there would be other areas that are decided by Brussels - Monetary issues (Money) as Cyprus is in the Eurozone.

At present, the TRNC is not a T/C state. It is a Turkish vassal state where T/C actually have little power and remain isolated. Furthermore, settlers outnumber us and will inevitably take over the TRNC and replace the T/Cs as a political force. The above UN solution is a better set up for the T/Cs without a doubt.

Thats not what I asked Omer.......All those demands you are making....Can you get them without Turkey........

[insan]

I'm ashamed to say that Turkish Cypriots serving Turkey are doing more to destroy Turkish Cypriot cultural identity than Nicos Sampson and his followers ever did.

So u immeadiately believed that TC dialect was banned being spoken by radio and TV stations in TRNC? Don't believe the hype. Turkey did no harm to TC cultural idendity. The isolations do harm on every aspect of TC life... and we know who r happy abt mass emigration of TCs... they whisper each other that when no TCs remain in TRNC they would argue that Turkey has no right to station troops in TRNC. In 45 years time, TCs had to balance it's economy and population growth by leting migration from Anatolia, Bulgaria etc in perfect correlation with TC emigration. Though I agree that if our politicians had been less corrupt, TRNC would have been far more developed and wealthy... most probably at least half of the emigrated TCs would have never emigrated or returned to TRNC. There r 2 big threats on TC community: One of them is Greek-GC ruling class and the other one is our own ruling class; but Turkey constitutes no threat against TCs.

Omer Seyhan wrote:

1. Who does the TRNC Broadcasting Authority take its orders from? And who do they take their orders from?

Ömer, TRNC Broadcasting authority comprise of one head and 9 memebers all r native TCs but also imbeciles. They neither have adequate knowledge of Istanbul dialect nor TC dialect. The members of this board were from all TC political parties that have MPs in TRNC parliament. They act according to the relevant TRNC lawas. They can't act unlawfully upon someone's orders.

Ömer Seyhan wrote:

2. I agree with you about isolation needing to end and that some more nationalist G/Cs may well be happy when all T/Cs are gone. But dont forget, the G/Cc did not impose isolation. It was the UN (1983) and ECJ (1996). The only way out is a solution, nothing else.

It is a well known fact that Greek/GC ruling class including their strong lobby exert both to urge UN memebers to issue resolutions to impose isolations on TRNC and on the other hand they exert to prevent every attempt of TCs, Turkey and foreigners towards breaking or lifting the isolations.

Ömer Seyhan wrote:

3. Yes, G/Cs can well argue at any point that the Cyprus issue has become a RoC - Turkey issue with or without settlers. They may ask that both states resolve it amongst at themselves as both are recognised states. And if Turkeys ever needed a quick solution it could easily without much hesitation drop the T/Cs like a rock.
In some respects I wish they would. Why? Because then some people in my community might wake up and realise that in International Relations there is no 'motherland' or 'babyhomeland' - it is everyone for themselves.
T/Cs who have been fed lies that they were saved and believe those lies are being taking for a ride. Turkey wants a base in Cyprus like the UK has and has its own national interests. They don't care about T/Cs. So T/Cs should try to be more independent in their approach and not suck up to Turkey out of a false feeling of gratitude.

Had Turkey simply wished a base in Cyprus, she would have accept the second Achesson plan by further negotiating it. No, u r wrong abt that Turkey just cares abt a military base in Cyprus... It is true that Cyprus has a great geo-strategic importance for both Turkey and Greece as it has this geo-strategic importance for all other concerned parties; Greece and GC administration included.


Ömer Seyhan wrote:

4. Settlers were not moved in for political reasons in particular in helping Turkey maintain control over its military base which is called TRNC. There are poor areas throughout Anatolia where settlers are not shipped in to improve the economy so why Cyprus?

Ömer, migration throughout Turkey and towards out of Turkey took place and still taking place both before 1974 and afterwards 1974. We all know that the first phase of settlers were brought in North to settle in the village houses that emptied by GCs who fled to South under the hostile circumstances of 1974. In 1975, almost all TCs were happy with Turkey. There was no need to bring Turks as u claimed for a purpose to maintaining the existence of Turkish troops in North. Little educated, little nationalist, laz origin, Kurdish origin, rural rooted settlers were brought to North because there were plenty of agricaltural land to cultivate and contribute to TC economy. The number of TC refugees was 70.000 whereas the number of GC refugees was 140.000... Let's say the unused GC land and properties that has been in buffer zone, Varosha and areas used by Turkish troops belong to abt 40.000 GC refugeees, the land and properties granted to 70.000 TC refugees belong to 70.000 GC refugees. 140.000 - (70.000+40.000)= 30.000

In 1974, there were properties and lands that could accomodate and feed 30.000 more people. What should TCs and Turkey do with these unused properties and lands...

Though, before inviting settlers from Turkey, TC leadership should call all those TCs who emigrated from Cyprus to return even though most of them would hesitate to return under the indetermined circumstances of 1974. However, it would be considered as TC leadership cared abt TCs who had to emigrate because of negative circumstances of Cyprus before 1974.


Ömer Seyhan wrote:

But Turkey's base is an expensive military base (to protect her southern flanks) and Turkey does not trust the T/Cs to look after it, which is why settlers (mostly nationalist ones were shipped in) and which is why Turkey does not pursue TRNC recognition, which Turkey could have achieved in 36 years. It kept its options open for decades but now wants a solution so that it can reduce its base size to a specific area with access to the sea and join the EU.

Turkey trusted TCs throughout TC history in Cyprus before 1974, so why not afterwards 1974? It's funny to claim that Turkey did not trust TCs.

Ömer Seyhan wrote:

There is one big threat to the T/C community. It is the servants of Turkey within the community who put Turkey's interests first before their community's interests. Look at the Koran classes which T/Cs oppose and which AKP wants to transport to Cyprus... Look at the queue of citizens which the Turkish Embassy are telling us to naturalise... Look at the Dialect that we can no longer use on Tv! Look at the way Talat and Eroglu behave like Jekyll and Hyde...

Those servants u talk abt put their own self-interests before anyones interests let alone Turkey's interests. They r so-called nationalists, so-called pro-Turkey. As for Kuran courses, they would be voluntary not obligatory; so who cares? Who ever wants to attend them attends.. isn't it democratic?

Ömer, don't believe eveything u hear.. First make a research abt it. In BRT and all other private TV and radio stations, overwhelming majority of the executives and workers r native TCs and the programs produced and presented by native TCs r all presented in TC dialect.


Ömer Seyhan wrote:

You can be 'grateful' if you feel you need to be Insan. I dont mind what opinion you may have but please be alert about what Turkish Cypriots themselves want and not what Ankara wants. Dont sell out your community - I've seen it happen too often.

Ömer, u know what... Had primarily our our politicians and besides, secondarily, Turkish politicians been less corrupt, more literate, capable, intelligent and sincerely patriotic; one way or another they would have solved the Cyprus problem, protect their people with justice and love. Unfortunately, they don't have any nobilities... Now, I'm asking u. Who r Turkish Cypriots? There r a significant number of TCs both in TRNC and in other countries that support the partisan policies of UBP. On the other hand there r significant number of TCs that support the less partisan policies of CTP. Overwhelming majority of TCs support the existence of Turkish troops in TRNC. Overwhelming majority of TCs r against the policies of GC administration that sees TCs as a minority in Cyprus. Overwhelming majority of TCs r against to live in a Greek-GC ruled Cyprus. Although majority of TCs r against partisanship and nepotism they don't give an effective struggle against partisanship and nepotism. Who r TCs then? Tell me, Ömer.

Ömer Seyhan wrote:

So far nobody can distinguish Turkish / Turkish Cypriot interests... I ask, and I want a reply, why is that? Are the same? Are they 100% identical? or is one party having to give way to a more dominant side? What ever happened to our community's political will? Does it not mean anything anymore?

TC and Turkish national interests r same, Ömer... the problem is TC ruling class and Turkish ruling class r not capable to materialize things in a fair way in favour of the masses. Neither the weaker but existing extra-ordinary intellectuals r capable to struggle against the unfairness and corrupted state of affairs because they usually critisize the things and persons with over-generalizations; superficially. Instead contributing the solution of the problems, they mostly give material to GC side to use against TCs and Turkey.

Ömer Seyhan wrote:

Perhaps we should move to Britain and elsewhere...

There r almost no where to escape or hide, Ömer. The future of the world is not bright. Why do u think EU expanded it's borders towards East Mediterennean? What wet dreams the ruling classes of EU and Greek/GC duo have regarding the natural resources of middle east and Cacauses? Do u think that the geo-strategic potentials of Cyprus will not be exploited by Greek/GC duo for the interests of Hellenism and Christianity of Europe? Even there would have been no TCs and Turks in Cyprus, it would become the East Mediterennean military front of EU and Hellenes against "illiterate", "terrorist", non-christians of Asia... They would exert to destabilize Asian countries to create circumstances to attack and capture their rich natural resources.

[Omer Seyhan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

Do you think that we could keep the North without Turkey?

The basis for negotiation at present is a bi-communal, bi-zonal (federal) state with political equality. This means a G/C and a T/C constituent state that are equal within a single federal state. In this set up the north will be a T/C constituent state which will be recognised as a T/C constituent state within the federal rep of Cyprus.

Each constituent state will govern areas it has power over, these may include education, public services, policing. At the federal level - issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence (Nato etc) will be decided by the Federal govt. Naturally there would be other areas that are decided by Brussels - Monetary issues (Money) as Cyprus is in the Eurozone.

At present, the TRNC is not a T/C state. It is a Turkish vassal state where T/C actually have little power and remain isolated. Furthermore, settlers outnumber us and will inevitably take over the TRNC and replace the T/Cs as a political force. The above UN solution is a better set up for the T/Cs without a doubt.

Thats not what I asked Omer.......All those demands you are making....Can you get them without Turkey........

I did answer your question, read more attentively.

I'm not making demands. Turkey has already accepted the above as a basis for negotiation as have the G/Cs.

Turkey has her demands and will no doubt make them before a deal is reached behind closed doors. Before that the T/C side even if it agrees 100% with the G/C cannot go forward.

I believe Turkey's interests relate to a Turkish base in Cyprus, and must NEVER be confused with T/C security interests which as well as being a separate issue can only ever be provided by the Federal Govt of Cyprus and can not be separated from the security of all Cypriots in general.

On the issue of a Turkish base, I see no problem with us allowing a small base for Turkey (perhaps combined with Nato) so that they can withdraw from the north of the island. We may need to sign a Strategic Partnership Agreement with Turkey too.

You can work with Turkey Zan while keeping the interests of your people first and without selling your soul!

And once Cypriots develop strong unity that can withstand the pressures from internal nationalists / separatists / Hellenists in years to come...then we may desire to re-evaluate the Turkish and maybe the British bases too and find new ways of doing things with our partners.

[zan]

Turkish politicians do not even know how TC politicians spend the financial aid they provide to TCs. Turkey has much bigger internal and external problems than Cyprus problem.

Only when a big scandalous incident happens they pay attention to TC affairs. They trust their ambassodor in TRNC. If he says everything is ok, it's ok. Primarily, the TC right wing political parties r corrupt... Though during the 5 years that CTP was in power, 3 or 4 embezzlement claims propounded by then the opposition parties.

For a long time, after 1974; abt 40% of TRNC citizens(mostly native TCs) share abt 80% of the wealth whereas 60% of TRNC citizens(mostly settlers or settler origin TCs) share 20% of wealth. This unjust income distribution was created by our corrupt politicians. Turkey has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians... At least they didn't encourage it... and they didn't plan it... Though corruption of politicians is also a big problem in Turkey, still has nothing directly to do with corruption of TC politicians. To a great extend it is related with dishonor and unprinciplness of majority of TC community... Partisanship and nepotism kill and destroy even the stongest empires...

Not sure what to make of your claim that the poor settlers suffer from a kind of social exclusion. Settlers arrived in Cyprus without a penny and were given free land and a voting slip. They were given this not out of generosity but to ensure colonisation. Go to Australia / Canada and see if they give you free land and a vote!

I agree that T/C politicians are generally corrupt - nothing surprises me here. But don't be naive about Turkeys role. How about the role of the Turkish army in looting and smuggling icons? Are you seriously telling me that Turkey does not benefit from that corruption? That they only sign the cheques and let the T/Cs get on with it? What's in it for Turkey? Do you think Turkey does not attach many conditions to her cheques that influence how T/C politicians behave?

I think whatever Turkey pays it is value for money. Where else can you get a colony with free land to distribute for free to your own people, icons to sell and natives who voluntarily swear allegiance to you?

Omer


One question.....Are you prepared to give up and walk into the "RoC" as it stands.......

Turkish Cypriots have a recognised state of their own - the Republic of Cyprus. It is the only state they helped form. They have rights and duties to this state whatever may have happened in the past.

Now if we did get up and cross the green line, overtime we could reform the RoC, although we would lose the north to Turkey and her settlers.

But I think its best for Cyprus and all Cypriots if we persevere with a political solution that would unite north and south and reform the RoC into a federal state. This way we would save lots of time and keep the north.

If we stay as we are, we remain isolated and controlled by Turkey with no influence on the RoC.

Do you think that we could keep the North without Turkey?

The basis for negotiation at present is a bi-communal, bi-zonal (federal) state with political equality. This means a G/C and a T/C constituent state that are equal within a single federal state. In this set up the north will be a T/C constituent state which will be recognised as a T/C constituent state within the federal rep of Cyprus.

Each constituent state will govern areas it has power over, these may include education, public services, policing. At the federal level - issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence (Nato etc) will be decided by the Federal govt. Naturally there would be other areas that are decided by Brussels - Monetary issues (Money) as Cyprus is in the Eurozone.

At present, the TRNC is not a T/C state. It is a Turkish vassal state where T/C actually have little power and remain isolated. Furthermore, settlers outnumber us and will inevitably take over the TRNC and replace the T/Cs as a political force. The above UN solution is a better set up for the T/Cs without a doubt.

Thats not what I asked Omer.......All those demands you are making....Can you get them without Turkey........

I did answer your question, read more attentively.

I'm not making demands. Turkey has already accepted the above as a basis for negotiation as have the G/Cs.

Turkey has her demands and will no doubt make them before a deal is reached behind closed doors. Before that the T/C side even if it agrees 100% with the G/C cannot go forward.

I believe Turkey's interests relate to a Turkish base in Cyprus, and must NEVER be confused with T/C security interests which as well as being a separate issue can only ever be provided by the Federal Govt of Cyprus and can not be separated from the security of all Cypriots in general.

On the issue of a Turkish base, I see no problem with us allowing a small base for Turkey (perhaps combined with Nato) so that they can withdraw from the north of the island. We may need to sign a Strategic Partnership Agreement with Turkey too.

You can work with Turkey Zan while keeping the interests of your people first and without selling your soul!

And once Cypriots develop strong unity that can withstand the pressures from internal nationalists / separatists / Hellenists in years to come...then we may desire to re-evaluate the Turkish and maybe the British bases too and find new ways of doing things with our partners.

I think you will find that many GCs will see those as demands Omer....

I am not asking you what Turkey wants...What I am asking is would you have achieved anything, how ever little you might consider it, without Turkey. What would the Annan plan have been without Turkey. What is good for us is what I am asking...Forget Turkeys wants for a minute!!!!