Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Cypriots were never "de-hellenized" to need any "re-hellenization". The people of Cyprus, like all other Greeks and many other nations had been under a foreign empire and they revolted seeking their freedom.

Greek schools have certainly done a great job Hellenizing you feeble brain Piratis, and I know you've graduated from Greek schools even though I've never met you because nobody could possibly talk with so much certainty over something based entirely on mythology!

Only a totally brainwashed individual could possibly swallow such a childish story onto which everything else is tied!

The one who has created his own mythology is none else than you GR.

Language and culture is transmitted from generation to generation, from parent to child, even when no schools exist. But yes, schools are there to educate people, about their history among other things, something which several of the foreign oppressors did not allow as some of them indeed tried, and failed, to "de-hellenize" Cyprus.

You have apparently received British education which has absolutely nothing to do with Cyprus. Greek is probably not your first language either. So Culturally and Linguistically you are more British than Cypriot, and associating yourself with some long lost prehistoric village which you know nothing about does not make you any more Cypriot. So stop trying to pretend that you are more Cypriot than I am, because I will start to treat you in that way too, and believe me, I will have a lot more basis to do so.

Our language is a Greek dialect, and this is the case for 1000s of years.

Are you sure it’s not the Greek language that’s a dialect of Cypriot?

Piratis, your stories are so dumb that they can't possibly convince a 5 year old...

A bunch of illiterates from Greece (Mycenaeans) somehow miraculously survive three months in the sea with no supplies (since they hastily sailed away fleeing the Dorian slaughter) and land 500 miles away on Cyprus, and instead of being assimilated and even made slaves by the literate locals who were already in an advanced state of civilization boasting their own temples, alphabet and language, the total illiterates take over the island and even invent their own language and convince the locals to abandon their ways and follow their now literate ways??? Start using your brain for Christ’s sake!

GR, I use my brain, but unlike you I also know the correct historical facts.

So let me educate you a bit.

1) You are confusing writing systems with language. Writing systems are a relatively recent innovation of humans (less than 10.000 years), while language is something humans used from the beginning (about 200.000 years).

2) The Greek language (a branch of the Indo-European language) existed from before first Greeks came to Cyprus (since about 3000BC, while first Greeks in Cyprus were in 1500BC).

3) The first writing system for Greek was Linear B, and Linear B was not invented in Cyprus. The Cypriot syllabary derives from Linear B.

4) The Mycenaeans had a Civilization which was far more advanced than what we had in Cyprus at the time. The Mycenaeans were not illiterate as you claim. You are probably confused with the Greek Dark Ages, which came after the end of the Mycenaean Civilization at around 1200BC.

Enough for now And by the way, everything I said above is taught not just in Greek schools, but also in all major universities of the world.

Piratis, all your purported “facts” are based SOLELY ON THE NARRATIVE that “Greeks” came and settled on Cyprus at some stage and did this and that… and that of course AUTOMATICALLY makes everything else you claim as “fact” part of that narrative!

Your story is a non-starter!

Before you can teach me “facts” you must first learn the difference between fact and fiction so here goes…

nar•ra•tive

NOUN:
1. A narrated account; a story.

2. The art, technique, or process of narrating.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... /narrative

fact

NOUN:
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

2. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... entry/fact

fic•tion

NOUN:

An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... ry/fiction

Happy learning…

[Piratis]

I posted to you 4 facts. Anybody reading this thread can easily confirm all 4 of them and everything else I said.

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it. You should find a way to promote your aims for the future that does not conflict with the truth about the past. Saying nonsense such as that the Cypriots invented the Greek language, or that Cyprus had some greater civilization of that of the Myceneans etc, discredits you and subsequently discredits your political objectives. You are entitled to want a different future for Cyprus but you can not build that future by falsifying the past.

[Murataga]

I posted to you 4 facts. Anybody reading this thread can easily confirm all 4 of them and everything else I said.

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it. You should find a way to promote your aims for the future that does not conflict with the truth about the past. Saying nonsense such as that the Cypriots invented the Greek language, or that Cyprus had some greater civilization of that of the Myceneans etc, discredits you and subsequently discredits your political objectives. You are entitled to want a different future for Cyprus but you can not build that future by falsifying the past.

Indigenous people were here before the Mycenaeans. Mycenaeans were a more advanced civilization than the locals. Mycenaeans came and they eventually enslaved and assimilated the indigenous groups with overwhelming population. Hate to admit it but Piratis is right.

[Oracle]

I posted to you 4 facts. Anybody reading this thread can easily confirm all 4 of them and everything else I said.

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it. You should find a way to promote your aims for the future that does not conflict with the truth about the past. Saying nonsense such as that the Cypriots invented the Greek language, or that Cyprus had some greater civilization of that of the Myceneans etc, discredits you and subsequently discredits your political objectives. You are entitled to want a different future for Cyprus but you can not build that future by falsifying the past.

Indigenous people were here before the Mycenaeans. Mycenaeans were a more advanced civilization than the locals. Mycenaeans came and they eventually enslaved and assimilated the indigenous groups with overwhelming population. Hate to admit it but Piratis is right.

They did nothing of the kind! You have confused them with the Ottomans - now Turks.

[Oracle]

Before you can teach me “facts” you must first learn the difference between fact and fiction so here goes…

nar•ra•tive

NOUN:
1. A narrated account; a story.

Once again, because you are not a historian, you fail to appreciate that all historical facts are related as "narrative" ... that does not mean they are made up. But, because you cannot do an experiment to reproduce them, as you can in science, then they are narrated as opposed to stated.

More significantly, you choose to ignore the second aspect of the historical narrative, which is supporting evidence. The evidence for the Hellenisation of Cyprus is numerous and overwhelming (coins, writing, pots, vases, temples etc) and strengthens the narrative, not diminishes it.

You cannot say this historical narrative is a "fantasy" because it has too much supporting evidence which you dismiss being a biased observer, with an agenda, whose opinion is therefore invalid in such a debate.

[Piratis]

I posted to you 4 facts. Anybody reading this thread can easily confirm all 4 of them and everything else I said.

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it. You should find a way to promote your aims for the future that does not conflict with the truth about the past. Saying nonsense such as that the Cypriots invented the Greek language, or that Cyprus had some greater civilization of that of the Myceneans etc, discredits you and subsequently discredits your political objectives. You are entitled to want a different future for Cyprus but you can not build that future by falsifying the past.

Indigenous people were here before the Mycenaeans. Mycenaeans were a more advanced civilization than the locals. Mycenaeans came and they eventually enslaved and assimilated the indigenous groups with overwhelming population. Hate to admit it but Piratis is right.

At the time the Mycenaeans first came to Cyprus about 3500 years ago the population of the whole world was less than 50 million people, that means 150 times less than it is now. Cyprus was mostly uninhabited back then. The Mycenaeans created their own city states on uninhabited land. Some small groups did come to Cyprus before the Mycenaeans but what makes them more Indigenous than the Mycenaeans? They all came from somewhere else, nobody grew out of the land of Cyprus. Both the Mycenaeans, those other small groups before them, and some that came after (like the Phoenicians) were indigenous to Cyprus because they were the first to create settlements on previously uninhabited territory. (remember that there were no countries or empires back then. Each village or city state just owned the territory around the village).

The Mycenaeans were indeed the first to settle on most areas of Cyprus, and they were more populous. But they didn't "enslave" anybody in Cyprus. When these city states were eventually united under some foreign empires, the population of Cyprus mixed together and since the majority were Greeks the rest gradually assimilated (which is perfectly natural)

On the other hand the Turks came here as invaders empire builders, killing 10s of thousands of people and stealing what others before them created.

[insan]

I posted to you 4 facts. Anybody reading this thread can easily confirm all 4 of them and everything else I said.

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it. You should find a way to promote your aims for the future that does not conflict with the truth about the past. Saying nonsense such as that the Cypriots invented the Greek language, or that Cyprus had some greater civilization of that of the Myceneans etc, discredits you and subsequently discredits your political objectives. You are entitled to want a different future for Cyprus but you can not build that future by falsifying the past.

Indigenous people were here before the Mycenaeans. Mycenaeans were a more advanced civilization than the locals. Mycenaeans came and they eventually enslaved and assimilated the indigenous groups with overwhelming population. Hate to admit it but Piratis is right.

At the time the Mycenaeans first came to Cyprus about 3500 years ago the population of the whole world was less than 50 million people, that means 150 times less than it is now. Cyprus was mostly uninhabited back then. The Mycenaeans created their own city states on uninhabited land. Some small groups did come to Cyprus before the Mycenaeans but what makes them more Indigenous than the Mycenaeans? They all came from somewhere else, nobody grew out of the land of Cyprus. Both the Mycenaeans, those other small groups before them, and some that came after (like the Phoenicians) were indigenous to Cyprus because they were the first to create settlements on previously uninhabited territory. (remember that there were no countries or empires back then. Each village or city state just owned the territory around the village).

The Mycenaeans were indeed the first to settle on most areas of Cyprus, and they were more populous. But they didn't "enslave" anybody in Cyprus. When these city states were eventually united under some foreign empires, the population of Cyprus mixed together and since the majority were Greeks the rest gradually assimilated (which is perfectly natural)

On the other hand the Turks came here as invaders empire builders, killing 10s of thousands of people and stealing what others before them created.

The Mycenaeans were a war-loving culture, whose conquests via their naval fleets no doubt aided in their efforts to build a vast trade network. They succeeded in this, and were able to import metals not available in their home region, such as gold and bronze. With these metals, they were able to become accomplished metalworkers, fashioning fantastic pieces of jewelry, funerary masks, and of course, weaponry.

http://ancienthistory.suite101.com/arti ... mycenaeans

Piratis, r u sure of that "the war loving" Mycenaeans didn't wage a war against existing aborginal nations of Cyprus when they first stepped into the island? Do u think the already existed aborginal nations of Cyprus welcomed the war loving Mycenaeans? And do u think instead looting, usurping the already existed settlements in Cyprus, Mycenaeeans immediately built their own? It's irrational.


[/quote]

[Get Real!]

It seems you put your political agenda higher than the truth and as I told you before that is the wrong way to go about it.

From me to you with love...

CONSTRUCTING AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL NARRATIVE:
THE HELLENIZATION OF CYPRUS

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/archaeolog ... /paper.pdf

[Tim Drayton]

I cannot claim to have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. However, this summer I visited the architectural site at Amathous, which was once the centre of one of the old Cypriot kingdoms. According to the potted history displayed at this site, this town was apparently founded by indigenous Cypriots who had been displaced from Paphos by the Myceneans.

[Get Real!]

I cannot claim to have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. However, this summer I visited the architectural site at Amathous, which was once the centre of one of the old Cypriot kingdoms. According to the potted history displayed at this site, this town was apparently founded by indigenous Cypriots who had been displaced from Paphos by the Myceneans.

Thanks Tim, but if it’s not written in the Greek “history” (read mythology) books… Piratis wouldn’t touch it!