Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[gabaston]

Main source

For the third time now let me write

GCs did not kill 12,000 tc’s in my opinion.

As I have already posted before, the number of tc’s killed 60-74 was probably sub 1000……are you happy now.

That banner does not say gc murdered 12,000 tc’s now does it. If you want to know what the carrier of that banner meant then please write to the organizers of that event maybe they can shed some light on it for you. I presented one way to infer its text, if you don’t like that’s fine.

Dodging the question huh?

I haven’t seen a single reply to the question:
How many died as a consequence of enosis?

I don’t know the answer. In the history of cyprus we are constantly told the number of gc killed during the turkish invasion- this number is blasted out at every opportunity. Can we also be told now the number that died as a consequence of enosis, this figure is as equally significant to any another figure. I don’t think this is an unjust request, and future generations should be made just as aware of it as any other statistic regarding the history of cyprus.

Kifeas has kindly responded to the ottoman of the question,can someone now please answer the enosis part?

[MicAtCyp]

when i read that article i did not beleive it. i was expecting a denial from t-paps. however in light of no such denial, i am reconciled to believing this is t-pap official stand on the matter.

its a bit like erdogan saying

how many gc's did turkey kill during the invasion? none.

Do you know how many accusations are said against Papadopoulos every day?Where do you think Bananiot finds his material? I would say about a hundred.Some in closed circles some in announcements of organisations to their members etc.99.9% of those are lies, or distorted events.Papadopoulos does 2 things. a)If the accusation is widely spread in the media and there is big fuss he always issues a personal announcement. or b)Have his spekesman answer to any question a journalist would ask for.

In the case of the interview at that Arabic newspaper, almost nobody heard of. So why should he go issuing a denial anouncement or even explain what and why he said. Simply nobody heard. Even if that issue was so important for the TCs why some TC reporters did not attend the everyday meeting of his spokesman and ask for clarifications.Simply nobody cared....

There is a proverb in Greek Cypriot dialect saying:"opoios shillos laksei en na tou siroume petra?" meaning are we going to throw a stone to each and every dog that barks? We have other more important work to do. Same with Papadopoulos.....

So I would ask you the same thing about Erdogan.Suppose nobody heard him saying so and it was just published in a Chinese paper who interviewd Erdogan through his interpreter from Turkish to out of English then to chinese then back to English again.Just some people out of 70 million of Turks spotted that on the Internet, whereas the rest of the population heard nothing. Would Erdogan go on issuing a denial or clarification announcement? What for?

************************

If the overwhelming majority people wanted Enosis(96% of Greeks in the 1951 referendum) then democratically they were entitled to Enosis.

That was not a referendum.They were just a book were everybody interested would go sign.His voting was not secret. So yes by some accident some people dared to sign "No". And if I am not mistaken most people signed after they got out of church after the Sunday ceremony.... In other words it was a fabrication.....

*****************

Like his blatent lie about asking UN for resumption of talks he requested from Kofi which was flately denied the next day

Again why is that a lie? Papadopoulos told the Polish president (a person who could aaalmost speak English that our permanent ambassador at the UN is working for the resumption of the talks. The Polish President expressed it diferently. And because of the fuss caused the UN announced that there was not an official written demand for the resumption of the talks..What would you want Papadopoulos to do? Go on public and say the Polish President did not understand exactly what he was told? By the way the UN did not say that Papadopoullos lied to them. They just clarified the situation.

But lets suppose Papadopoulos was indeed lying and he was in fact not working in that direction. On whose initiative did eventually Prendercast come to Cyprus aiming at the resumption of the talks? On the initiative of Talat? Or because of Erdogan whose only effort was to remember the dead report of Koffi Anan one year later and went ass licking him to put it again on vote at the security council to "punish" the GCs? And then went further on ass licking Putin of Russia not to excercise veto again?

******************************

I agree that GCs were democratically entitled to Enosis. But with the same reasoning TCs were democratically entitled to Taksim. If GCs wanted to take 80% of the island and unite with Greece I doubt they would be a problem back then. But no the whole island belong the Greeks so they wanted the whole.

Nobody was entitled to anything.The self determination right has limitations on how it can apply. You can just say the GCs self determination right entitled them to Enosis but that contradicted with the self determination right of the TCs so in the end everybody was entitled of nothing.

But I could not agree with the differentiation between EOKA and EOKA B. For TCs they are one and the same, just resurrected at different time periods.

OK I understand, but Eoka B actually targetted the state and the GCs. It's support was very limited among the population whereas Eoka had almost total support. I beleive TCs are looking at the issue only from the perspective that both wanted Enosis.Yet for many GCs Eoka was fighting for liberation too.

GCs are trying so hard to make this distinction just because they refuse to believe that an organization they deem as freedom fighters against Brits (EOKA) can turn against Makarios later on. (even though the only way Makarios and EOKA-B differ is the way they wanted to achieve Enosis, not the end result.)

You are partly right.Yes the Gcs need something to be proud about and that was Eoka.It fills a psychological gap. Yet you cannot deny the many differences between the two.Like I said the biggest difference you have to look at ois the support they got from the GC people.

You are very quick too blame the dictatorship in Greece for leading EOKA-B. The junta started in 1967, who was helping EOKA-B before then?. Who was killing TCs before then? May be it was the alliens, huh!!!!

Eoka B was established in 1971!!!!
As to who was killing TCs back then if you mean during the events of 1963 please do a little search.

Turkcyp does not prescribe to official line like you do?

He makes his own research and reach to conclusion by himself? He had learnt so many things that his histroy books never told him about his communities past deeds but he does not try to justify them like you are doing.

That's why Turkcyp is a respactable person for me.





*********************

After all, whatever the reason was, it is for sure that Makarios was still talking sympathetic about it and that is what counts, no one did anything against Eoka B ( I am talking about their attacks on TC) in 60ties which make them partly responsible as well

Like I said Eoka B was formed in 1971.Makarios suffered numerous assisignation attempts from Eoka B. If he could do something about that organisation he would do it. But he could not.

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp I applaud your attempt at explaining away Papdops lieing, its in the translation, he was misunderstood etc etc etc its everyone elses fault mentality wont get us anywhere, you may fool some people but not all. The man for TCs is the same as Denktas was for you guys we dont trust him one inch until we see positive and genuine moves to resolve this issue.

[MicAtCyp]

You are entitled to your opinion VP. You can also say you are 100% sure Papadopoulos lied. Bence problem yok. (For me there is no problem).
I heard the TCs call him Denktasopoulos is that true?

PS.By the way This is not the only thing I said.Do you have any comments for the rest, which concentrate more on the point or....?

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp

I heard the TCs call him Denktasopoulos is that true?

Not heard that one

You are entitled to your opinion VP. You can also say you are 100% sure Papadopoulos lied. Bence problem yok. (For me there is no problem). [/quot

Thankyou the feeling is mutual.

By the way This is not the only thing I said.Do you have any comments for the rest, which concentrate more on the point or....?

Could you be more specific as your style and approach and barrage of words sometimes clouds the essense of what you are trying to convey.

[RAFAELLA]

MicAtCyp I applaud your attempt at explaining away Papdops lieing, its in the translation, he was misunderstood etc etc etc its everyone elses fault mentality wont get us anywhere, you may fool some people but not all. The man for TCs is the same as Denktas was for you guys we dont trust him one inch until we see positive and genuine moves to resolve this issue.

What excactly are these positive moves you expect from Papadopoulos/Gcs?

[Viewpoint]

RAFAELLA.

What excactly are these positive moves you expect from Papadopoulos/Gcs?

To agree to meet Talat directly and negotiate in good faith.

To ease the isolation on the North via direct trade, flights.

To demand UN restart negotiations.

To clarify to UN what changes he wants to Annan plan.

To genuinely encourage GC businessmen to trade with the North.

To not lie.

[erolz]

I heard the TCs call him Denktasopoulos is that true?

Actually the only 'nickname' I have heard for him here is 'papa doc' (and denktash as 'papa denk')

If you know anythinf of the 'original' papa doc then you will see that this nickname is far more insulting than Denktasopoulos (and a lot easier to say as well)

http://www.giles.34sp.com/biographies/papadoc.htm

Of course I would never personaly refer to Mr Popadopulous as Papa Doc

[2fan]

paper size A1 : $15
wooden pole: $5
Big propaganda lie: worthless

Total: $20 + waste of time

Anyways, I will not make any more comments about the ones that question the greek civilization.

Piratis

You have the presumptuous audacity to claim that Greeks are completely innocent of any wrongdoing (that's what your message came across as)and you reduce those sorry events to a satire of the Mastercard commercial????? Wake up, smell the coffee and be a bit more more sensitive. Geeez. When the Greeks claim something it's the gospel, when Turks do it it's propaganda.