Cyprus-Forum.com

[detailer]

Well...you and Turk Cyp must be reading from different history books.

I don't think that my ideas/knowledge is really different from turkycyp. The aim of both was Enosis in the end. He thinks that you are aceppting EOKA B as "aliens" and don't want to accept the resposibility of that upon GC community.

After all, EOKA B was not sincerely stopped by the GCs who are supposed to not share its motives(Makarios, AKEL) until it really became a real danger for them as well. It was too late then.

[Kifeas]

a Turkish Cypriot even partly agreeing that EOKA and EOKA B are not the same. Thats all im saying.

Even in our history books, it is said that EOKA A and B are not exacly same. The difference is how to reach Enosis by a coup or siga siga. Even AKEL was a fun of Enosis before 74, whatever the way they justify it.


If Makarios's way was followed , it would be very probable to accomplish it to be honest.

Makarios abandoned the idea of Enosis as a feasible political goal as early as 1964, after the rejection of the Atchenson plan by him and he completely detached himself emotionally from 1968-69 and onwards, with the rise of the Greek Junta in power and the withdrawal of the Greek brigade after the Kofinou events.

It is for this reason that Grivas organized the Eoka B and began the anti-Makarios struggle, in order to overthrow him from the presidency, due to his abandonment of the Enosis idea.

The same can be said about Akel, which followed a similar patent of political shifting.

And do not come out with some extracts from Makarios speeches which might suggest the opposite, because they were just speeches for internal consumption and for personal survival and /or deluding purposes.

[Kifeas]

After all, EOKA B was not sincerely stopped by the GCs who are supposed to not share its motives(Makarios, AKEL) until it really became a real danger for them as well. It was too late then.

What do you mean by that?

[Main_Source]

Turkcyp does not prescribe to official line like you do?

He makes his own research and reach to conclusion by himself? He had learnt so many things that his histroy books never told him about his communities past deeds but he does not try to justify them like you are doing.

On the other hand, you accept and only accept the official GC line without even making a slightest research, and this causes you to justify the past old deeds.

What ridiculous history books told you that every single Greek Cypriot should have been punished for the acts of a few?

You say you do not tow the official line but telling people that every single Greek Cypriot was responsible for any Turkish Cypriot deaths and that EOKA is the same as EOKA B sounds pretty official from a Turkish nationalist point of view.

Thats like me saying that Greek Cypriots should have harrassed any Turkish Cypriots because they allowed these Turkish Cypriot policemen to work for the British.

[Main_Source]

Kifeas, its not worth trying to show TurkCyp the truth because it makes life easy for him to think that Makarios was some evil leader.

[detailer]

And do not come out with some extracts from Makarios speeches which might suggest the opposite, because they were just speeches for internal consumption and for personal survival and /or deluding purposes.

Kifeas, this is nonsense. But thanks for confession, so you are accepting that Enosis was making a good "rating" in GC community so much that a strong man like Makarios didnt actually want it but had to defend it.

After all, whatever the reason was, it is for sure that Makarios was still talking sympathetic about it and that is what counts, no one did anything against Eoka B ( I am talking about their attacks on TC) in 60ties which make them partly responsible as well.

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[MicAtCyp]

i am not saying that either side is perfect however 12,000 is a large number and was just wondering why it took over 30 years for this number to appear. also want to know why it was never take to a war-crimes tribunal. also want to know where this number came from

Demetriou as you know at some specific years we had "genocides" here.Everybody knows that in 1963 and 1964 we had the bloody Christmas were "millions" of TCs were killed.Here are the exact numbers taken from Turkish books

". Ηay, Abdulhaluk. Kύbrύs’ta Kanlύ Noel, 1963. Ankara: Tόrk Kόltόrόnό Arastύrma Enstitόsό, 1989. pages 109-114

Number of dead TC during the "genocide" years
79 TC in 1963, and 136 TC in 1964!


So if during the years of "genocide" we had about 250 TC dead lets say we had about 20-30 dead from 1963-67 when everything was over, and 5-6 from 1967-74 then the total number is not more than 500. I said it many times in this forum that the death toll was less than 1 per thousand every year! And the number of the GC dead from TMT was about the same...

[Main_Source]

Turkcyp

So who is the silent majority? all Greek Cypriots? If YES is the answer...then what is the difference between "every member of a silent majority is responsible for a violant minority" and a all Greek Cypriots are responsible for the actions of EOKA B??...and remember the context in which you said it...you blatently said that most Greek Cypriots deserved to suffer.

Anyway...you can dress your ridiculous ideaologies all you like with your Word 97 Thesaurus...but you are still a lot more one sided than I am and thats where real intelligence shows.

As for the final statement, I stopped playing Golden Axe when I got a Super Nintendo.

[Kifeas]

And do not come out with some extracts from Makarios speeches which might suggest the opposite, because they were just speeches for internal consumption and for personal survival and /or deluding purposes.

Kifeas, this is nonsense. But thanks for confession, so you are accepting that Enosis was making a good "rating" in GC community so much that a strong man like Makarios didnt actually want it but had to defend it.

After all, whatever the reason was, it is for sure that Makarios was still talking sympathetic about it and that is what counts, no one did anything against Eoka B ( I am talking about their attacks on TC) in 60ties which make them partly responsible as well.

With a National Guard stuffed with mainland Greek officers who were promoting Enosis within the Army and not only, and with a governmental civil service and a police forces stuffed in most key positions with ex-Eoka (1955) fighters who remained emotionally (and not only,) attached to the dream of Enosis since the 1955-1958 struggle, Makarios was not such a strong president as a first impression might suggest due to the overwhelming popular support that he indeed enjoyed.

Whom Makarios needed to please was the above forces who had indeed an overwhelming power in their hands and could sabotage and paralyze the state any time they wanted to do so.

As for the nonsense …., I just return it back!