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Makarios Droushiotis supports cross voting system

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:03 am

mikkie this system is not a form of proportional representation. The definition clearly says what proportional representation is, and the various systems are the ones which (more or less) try to match the percentage of votes with the percentage of seats. In Cyprus we have one of the most proportional systems. We have 56 seats in the parliament. That means 1 seat for every 1.8% of the population. If a party gets 1.8% of the votes it is guaranteed 1 seat. If it gets 3.6% it is guaranteed 2 seats and so on. Bigger parties only get some boost in the 2nd and 3rd "katanomi". In Greece it is less proportional.

The system we are discussing now is not proportional at all. We would be voting for two presidents. While the votes of TCs will have full effect in both elections, the votes of GCs will count fully only on the election of one of the two presidents. For the election of the president who will rule Cyprus 1/3rd of the time the votes of GCs will count for far less than the votes of TCs. Personally I refuse to vote in an election where my vote will count for less than some others, just because those others happen to be Muslim and speak Turkish. This is a racist discrimination I will not accept and I will never recognize any "president" which is not democratically elected by the Cypriot people.

Of course you can imagine a worst systems, e.g. we could have directorship with no input from the people at all or the system that the Turks want. But just because worst systems exist this doesn't make this one a good one.

Ideally, it would be best to have a single electoral list with a 1 man 1 vote system but unfortunately, the Cypriot political system in a unified Cyprus will have to go through a process of evolution before it matures into something better. I just don't think it is realistic to do it all in one go.


"If you didn't like it you shouldn't have signed it" Does this remind you of anything? And how do you think it will change in the future? We can propose such changes, but why would the TCs voluntarily accept to change something which suits them?

Hoping that we can make something better after we sign away our rights and accept to be second category citizens is even less realistic.

In my opinion we should have insisted that the presidents should be elected on a common ticket. One GC and one TC to campaign together and be elected by Cypriots as a whole. Then the presidency to rotate between them. Such thing would already be a compromise from our part and nobody can claim that it is not "political equality" of communities.
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Postby Gregory » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:54 am

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell? I could hear them ringing from the Church on Stavros vuni.
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So why did you say in this thread you were here till the invasion?
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Postby Oracle » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:33 am

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!
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Postby YFred » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:52 am

Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!


We were getting on like a house on fire, weren’t we old girl, but how would you know? You were at Glasgow or some god forsaken place.
How many times did you spend 6 hours in the midday heat waiting outside Lefkosha in the middle of august, roasting in a boiling bus, while the RoC police sat in the shade with their ventilators, laughing and joking in between beating a TC here and a TC there?
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Postby Oracle » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:07 pm

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!


We were getting on like a house on fire, weren’t we old girl, but how would you know? You were at Glasgow or some god forsaken place.
How many times did you spend 6 hours in the midday heat waiting outside Lefkosha in the middle of august, roasting in a boiling bus, while the RoC police sat in the shade with their ventilators, laughing and joking in between beating a TC here and a TC there?


Another case of you filling in gaps with crap. Of course we weren't getting on like a house on fire since the reason my family left was Turkey bombing and Napalming our villages. But that was 1964 ... not 1972 (as you claim you left, when there were no conflicts). And as it was, not that it's any of your business, we sought shelter in Greece. You on the other did not leave after a spate of troubles, but chose to leave much later PURELY for economic reasons, in 1972! So, to claim it was "ethnic cleansing" merely stigmatises you as a lying toad. If you were "ethnically cleansed" why didn't you go to Turkey, much nearer if it was an "emergency" as ethnic cleansing tends to be. Yet you took 9 years to decide to go to the UK! It's nothing to be ashamed about YFred ... what is shameful is you trying to lie about the circumstances.

YFred, I'm not interested in your family, your life, your reasons ... I could not care less ... but when you lie that the RoC somehow "ethnically cleansed" TCs; then you should at least have some verifiable corroborative evidence!
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Postby YFred » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:21 pm

Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!


We were getting on like a house on fire, weren’t we old girl, but how would you know? You were at Glasgow or some god forsaken place.
How many times did you spend 6 hours in the midday heat waiting outside Lefkosha in the middle of august, roasting in a boiling bus, while the RoC police sat in the shade with their ventilators, laughing and joking in between beating a TC here and a TC there?


Another case of you filling in gaps with crap. Of course we weren't getting on like a house on fire since the reason my family left was Turkey bombing and Napalming our villages. But that was 1964 ... not 1972 (as you claim you left, when there were no conflicts). And as it was, not that it's any of your business, we sought shelter in Greece. You on the other did not leave after a spate of troubles, but chose to leave much later PURELY for economic reasons, in 1972! So, to claim it was "ethnic cleansing" merely stigmatises you as a lying toad. If you were "ethnically cleansed" why didn't you go to Turkey, much nearer if it was an "emergency" as ethnic cleansing tends to be. Yet you took 9 years to decide to go to the UK! It's nothing to be ashamed about YFred ... what is shameful is you trying to lie about the circumstances.

YFred, I'm not interested in your family, your life, your reasons ... I could not care less ... but when you lie that the RoC somehow "ethnically cleansed" TCs; then you should at least have some verifiable corroborative evidence!

It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
So economic suffocation does not count than in your book for forcing people to move out of the country.

Hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Postby Oracle » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:29 pm

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!


We were getting on like a house on fire, weren’t we old girl, but how would you know? You were at Glasgow or some god forsaken place.
How many times did you spend 6 hours in the midday heat waiting outside Lefkosha in the middle of august, roasting in a boiling bus, while the RoC police sat in the shade with their ventilators, laughing and joking in between beating a TC here and a TC there?


Another case of you filling in gaps with crap. Of course we weren't getting on like a house on fire since the reason my family left was Turkey bombing and Napalming our villages. But that was 1964 ... not 1972 (as you claim you left, when there were no conflicts). And as it was, not that it's any of your business, we sought shelter in Greece. You on the other did not leave after a spate of troubles, but chose to leave much later PURELY for economic reasons, in 1972! So, to claim it was "ethnic cleansing" merely stigmatises you as a lying toad. If you were "ethnically cleansed" why didn't you go to Turkey, much nearer if it was an "emergency" as ethnic cleansing tends to be. Yet you took 9 years to decide to go to the UK! It's nothing to be ashamed about YFred ... what is shameful is you trying to lie about the circumstances.

YFred, I'm not interested in your family, your life, your reasons ... I could not care less ... but when you lie that the RoC somehow "ethnically cleansed" TCs; then you should at least have some verifiable corroborative evidence!

It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
So economic suffocation does not count than in your book for forcing people to move out of the country.

Hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


Really? Because according to Zan, 1963-1965 was when the great "ethnic cleansing" by the RoC took place which drove him out (similarly, strangely, also not towards near-by Turkey but to the UK ... for some reason).

As I said, you need some corroborative evidence before you shoot your mouth off with propaganda slogans!
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Postby humanist » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:36 pm

Beware of Downer a racist prick who supported a tyrant of a PM in Australia for years. He'll screw both TC's & GC's to meet his ego needs
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Postby YFred » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:49 pm

Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:All Liars. When you speak the truth you have nothing to fear.

:lol:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22741

If I told you once I told you a thousand times, when I left Cyprus. You know it. I even told you what your friendly roc customs man told me.

Stanatheman.


Rather a strange time to leave Cyprus? ... 1972?
What was the motive?

Enclaves? Does it ring a bell?
Although I don't remeber TMT firing at me as I was eacaping from Lurucina.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So you happily put up with "enclaves" for nine years and then just ... left? :roll:

Rather let Mummy Turkey down then didn't you? ... abandoning your post!

Not even the Turks use 14 year old soldiers, dear woman. God give me patience.


They just saw you all as numbers fodder, regardless of age. So, what actually was the motive for leaving in 1972 (probably the year of least migrations :wink: )?

It was ethnic cleansing of the best kind, looked very democratic and all that. Butter wouldn't melt in your mouths.


Really? Even in 1972? Ethnic cleansing on the grand scale of ONE TC family? After 9 years of "enclaves"?

Don't lie ... what were the motives for leaving at the most peaceful of times?

Just say if you'd rather not tell us, but don't make stuff up or we will keep probing ....

Where were you in 1972?
There was quite a few TCs in the plane, I can assure you, I was not the only one.
Were the TCs very happy with their life in TC land?
Were there lots of hope and opporotunities to make a life?
Economic suffocation did not start in 1974, it started in 1963.
You can probe all you like, I am ready, shall I take my clothes off? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which planet did you come from, Uranus?


OK ... You simply migrated during a peaceful time in Cyprus to seek better economic conditions. So, stop making out it was "ethnic cleansing"!

The economy in Cyprus was poor relative to the UK ... for everyone!


We were getting on like a house on fire, weren’t we old girl, but how would you know? You were at Glasgow or some god forsaken place.
How many times did you spend 6 hours in the midday heat waiting outside Lefkosha in the middle of august, roasting in a boiling bus, while the RoC police sat in the shade with their ventilators, laughing and joking in between beating a TC here and a TC there?


Another case of you filling in gaps with crap. Of course we weren't getting on like a house on fire since the reason my family left was Turkey bombing and Napalming our villages. But that was 1964 ... not 1972 (as you claim you left, when there were no conflicts). And as it was, not that it's any of your business, we sought shelter in Greece. You on the other did not leave after a spate of troubles, but chose to leave much later PURELY for economic reasons, in 1972! So, to claim it was "ethnic cleansing" merely stigmatises you as a lying toad. If you were "ethnically cleansed" why didn't you go to Turkey, much nearer if it was an "emergency" as ethnic cleansing tends to be. Yet you took 9 years to decide to go to the UK! It's nothing to be ashamed about YFred ... what is shameful is you trying to lie about the circumstances.

YFred, I'm not interested in your family, your life, your reasons ... I could not care less ... but when you lie that the RoC somehow "ethnically cleansed" TCs; then you should at least have some verifiable corroborative evidence!

It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
It was rather hard to leave in 63, as your heroes were shooting at us.
So economic suffocation does not count than in your book for forcing people to move out of the country.

Hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


Really? Because according to Zan, 1963-1965 was when the great "ethnic cleansing" by the RoC took place which drove him out (similarly, strangely, also not towards near-by Turkey but to the UK ... for some reason).

As I said, you need some corroborative evidence before you shoot your mouth off with propaganda slogans!

So what you are saying is that between 68 and 74 there was no need for people to leave. How would you know? where were you?
It is so easy to blame the victim, it does not wash though, it sticks like crap to all over your nice clean dress.
:wink:
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Postby Oracle » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:14 pm

YFred wrote:So what you are saying is that between 68 and 74 there was no need for people to leave. How would you know? where were you?
It is so easy to blame the victim, it does not wash though, it sticks like crap to all over your nice clean dress.
:wink:


No, there may well have been "reasons" for people to leave. What we were discussing was YOUR accusation that you left in 1972 because you were "ethnically cleansed".

I think we proved once again you were just parroting Zan's propaganda, and like all propaganda you lack evidence; merely blowing foul air.
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