Cyprus-Forum.com

[gabaston]

piratis

you keep saying things like tcs have four times the rights as gc's. then you post something about the strong can pass laws to oppress the weak?

do you not realise that your later post exemplifies why in cyprus there can be no stronger community in a possitiion to oppress the other.

i know,i know im wasting my time.............. youre now gonna say something about the TA oppressing you, but deep down you do understand the point im trying to convey. Even at 18% it was agreed that we shared power equally, was it not? or do you not stand by what your previous politicians sign to?

[Piratis]

TCs don't have the right for a separate state and don't have the right for 50% power. As far as I understand you don't argue against the 1st point, and you have nothing to support your arguments against the 2nd point apart from your own theories.

The only thing that you have is the Turkish army that is helping you to keep the illegalities and the violations of our human rights.
In this way you choose to be our enemies, and you give us no other alternative than to wait until we will have the power to take our land back in the apparently only way possible.

or do you not stand by what your previous politicians sign to?

What we had signed was a complete agreement. And I stand by that agreement. However you reject that agreement right?

[erolz]

TCs don't have the right for a separate state and don't have the right for 50% power. As far as I understand you don't argue against the 1st point, and you have nothing to support your arguments against the 2nd point apart from your own theories.

We have a right to self determiantion - like all peoples do. That can be exercised through some form of political equality of the two communites or by seperating the two communites into seperate states. Neither option is a right they are both means by which we can exercise our right to self determination. You refuse both nd leave us only the option of giving up our right to self determiantion and insist we accept to be ruled by GC in our own shared homeland.

As far as 'nothing to support' the number 2 theory the simple reality is that every solution or proposed solution to an independent Cyprus have contained a recognition of some form of equality of the two communites in Cyprus. That is true of the 60 agreements and continues upto today with even your president at least claiming to support a BBF.

The only thing that you have is the Turkish army that is helping you to keep the illegalities and the violations of our human rights.
In this way you choose to be our enemies, and you give us no other alternative than to wait until we will have the power to take our land back in the apparently only way possible.

And before the Turkish army came to cyprus in 74? We did not have any rights of equality under the consistuion? We did not suffer abuses of our human rights at the hands of GC majority? You do not just want your land back, you want it back without having to give us our rights. That is why the only option you can see to get your land back is through force of power (arms).

What we had signed was a complete agreement. And I stand by that agreement. However you reject that agreement right?

Your leadership - TP included did not stand by the agrements they made. They sought to undermine them and remove the rights the TC community secured in 1960. They were also more than willing to use illegal violence in the persuit of this aim. If they had not done so the Turkish army would never have come to Cyprus and you would never have lost your land.

[gabaston]

piratis

we do have the right to share the island with you-it was in the constution which your leaders our leaders turkeys leaders greece's leaders britains leaders put their signatures to. it was your leaders who no sooner had seen their ink dry and had seen off the british decided it was time now to see off the turks and ammend that constitution in order that they may legally do so. you know it -voilating both constitution and gaurantor treaty, the former not be able to exist without the latter.

without equal power, you may have signed up to the treaty but tc turkey and britain would not have- there would have been no independant cyprus irrespective if you had been there three days three millenia or three billion years.

just a thought in all history did greece ever have an era where it ruled in cyprus? the venetians did so did the turks, as did the brits on two seperate occassions, why not the greeks? Alexander went to persia, why not cyprus?


regarding legallities. regardless of world opinion, without a constitution there are no legalities, is it illegal for any country to recognise tc?
who is to say - if it happens it happens - then that recognition officially is legal between those states. There is no precendent to compare cyprus's legalities issues with. The only legalities are its constitution which you tore up and its guarantor treaty which you also violated. Cyprus has been in a legal vacuum probably since 63 only the world hasnt got the brains or will to do anything much about it.


piratis it was simple all you had to do was be nice to us and we would have been nice to you - but no you had to persue some mad helenic empire dream- Time is running out now we are both now faced with a damage limitation program, the longer this problem takes to resolve the more damage will be done to both communities.

[Piratis]

Neither option is a right they are both means by which we can exercise our right to self determination.

Thats enough. You don't have the right, as you said. So you can call yourselves whatever you want (peoples etc) but you can not violate our RIGHTS as a means to achieve what you think you have the right for. So use legal means to achieve whatever you want for yourselves. Violating our rights is not the right means.

As far as 'nothing to support' the number 2 theory the simple reality is that every solution or proposed solution to an independent Cyprus have contained a recognition of some form of equality of the two communites in Cyprus. That is true of the 60 agreements and continues upto today with even your president at least claiming to support a BBF.

The only reason for this is the Turkish army that is forcing many people to make such compromises even against our human rights. Remove the Turkish army and then lets see who will agree for such things.

If they had not done so the Turkish army would never have come to Cyprus and you would never have lost your land.

If you haven't invaded our country and ethnically cleansed part of it, we wouldn't have to kill you. (this is an argument like yours, that will be made sooner or later. Lets see if you will like it)

[erolz]

If you haven't invaded our country and ethnically cleansed part of it, we wouldn't have to kill you. (this is an argument like yours, that will be made sooner or later. Lets see if you will like it)

But you were killing us BEFORE Turkey intervened in Cyprus. Why did you have to kill us then? It is not the presense of the Turkish army and the loss of your lands that makes you want to kill us. You were killing us before this 'excuse'. You were killings us because we refused to give up our rights to self determination.

[Piratis]

But you were killing us BEFORE Turkey intervened in Cyprus. Why did you have to kill us then?

You were killing us BEFORE we were killing you, and as a matter of fact you started this first, and your crimes against us were 100 times worst.

So if who started first? YOU
Who did it last (until next time)? YOU
Who wants to continue this crime in the future? YOU
Who did the worst? YOU

All you have to say about us, is that one decade. History doesn't start and it doesn't end whenever you want my friend.

So you choose:
Can a crime be an excuse for another crime?

1)If the answer is yes, then whatever we did to you in the 60s was excused and too little, and what we will do to you in the future will again be excused.

2)if the answer is no, then we say sorry for the 60s, you say sorry for the centuries of oppression and for the 3 decades of occupation, and we both stop using the past as an excuse for more crimes and illegalities.

Which will it be, 1 or 2?