Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Why don't you read the geneva conventions first mate...then you will see what they have to do with the settlers.

You don't just dump an entire website to someone and hope they'll find what you're referring to!

[Viewpoint]

VP, some of us keep up with the news-

Christofias BEFORE the start of the talks with Talat, showed flexibility by saying that 50 000 settlers would stay. A statement that caused furore in the GC community.

Talat has said nothing, and Erdogan at the UN told Christofias that the settlers are no problems sinc they are citizens of the TRNC.

So your statement "TCs who have a history in common with you and are flexible on the settlers issue ," is not exactly accurate. The only one showing flexibility on the issue is Christofias.

Nikitas the power sharing and security issues are of far more important to TCs, you continue to show no vision whatsoever if you strengthen the resolve on thses issues the issue of settlers will follow but the arrogance and blindness GCs continue to display with only make our sides stance more rigid...someone has to take the first big step and you cannot expect this from us with Turkey breathing down our necks you have to give us something to work with otherwise all that our leaders are doing is play acting at trin to find a solution they may as well give up and allow both sides to get on with their lives without hope of ever finding a solution...false hope is the worst form of torture.

[wallace]

Why don't you read the geneva conventions first mate...then you will see what they have to do with the settlers.

You don't just dump an entire website to someone and hope they'll find what you're referring to!

Why not? I read it! Is he to stupid to do so? They play stupid......and then they have you to serve it on a plate for them. I'm not that easy By the way....nice website you've got there.

[bigOz]

And what the fuck has Geneva conventions to do with Turkish settlers?

This...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle19.htm

GR, I am fully aware of the contents of article 49 of the 4th Geneva convention (1949). But it seems that you are looking at it in a very romantic and blinkered way...

First of all the article was designed for potential OCCUPYING POWERS such as Germany soon after the second World War.

EU, International Courts, or architects of Geneva Conventions do not seem to agree that Turkey is actually occupying North Cyprus by force or carrying out any crimes against humanity - hence there has not been any international pressure or court order for Turkey to remove their forces from Cyprus. Likewise, there has not been any political or economic sanctions against Turkey because they are an illegal occupying power in Cyprus! I agree that Individual legal actions in EU courts, for losses as the direct result of 1974 invasion have been successful, but then the same will apply to many losses by the TCs who have recently filed law suits against the ROC.

Greece and GC leadership are not having talks with Turkish generals in Turkey but with Erdogan and Talat - i.e. Turkey and N. Cyprus are governed by democratically elected governments who carry out all political negotiations.

Turkish army does not occupy or run North Cyprus, they are confined to their barracks and have no say in local running of the civil government. When the so called left wing CTP won the elections in N. Cyprus against the wishes/desires of the Turkish government + the army, we did not have tanks rolling in the streets or a military intervention!

In short, your thesis would have been right if Turkey was an occupying power as such...

As for settlers, it is comical to think Turkey is moving its own population into N. Cyprus. The population movement is more economy related than political! Most of the settlers are of Kurdish ethnic origin who discovered entry into N.Cyprus by ID cards as an easy option for work opportunity and earning money. Local construction companies successfully used them as cheap labor - but in time, some of their wealthier relatives (and these guys have clans) moved in as well and set up businesses in the North.

The increase in population of such mainland Turks is by pushing into main city centres and taking over restaurants, barber shops, mechanics, cleaning companies, and grocers (just like in North London). They are not systematically settled into large chunks of North Cyprus! The actual settlers that arrived soon after 1974 to work the land in/around many villages are the same, but besides growing in number by breeding they were/are used as jumping stones for other members of family in Turkey to move in and stay with them.

The above process is expanding geometrically and is actually getting out of hand. Instead of making useless claims such as Turkey being an occupying power, try lifting the embargoes on the TCs so that they can minimise their dependence on Turkey, and may even do something to reverse the process and/or stop the real TCs from leaving the island to provide even more space to these mainlanders.

This sort of meaningless propaganda has been going on for 35 years by the GCs and look where it got us all! Is a political solution really round the corner? Has it had any effect on Turkish foreign policies? Has it got anyone their land back? Has it stopped the inflow of mainland Turks (or your best friends Kurds for that matter)?

If the Gcs are so politically anti Turkish then why the hell are they crying/begging the occupying power Turkey to open her ports to ROC shipping or her airspace to ROC airways?

[Get Real!]

And what the fuck has Geneva conventions to do with Turkish settlers?

This...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle19.htm

GR, I am fully aware of the contents of article 49 of the 4th Geneva convention (1949). But it seems that you are looking at it in a very romantic and blinkered way...

First of all the article was designed for potential OCCUPYING POWERS such as Germany soon after the second World War.

Too old for you eh? Let's see what rubbish you'll come up with this time...

Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, 17 July 1998 (Article 8 War crimes)

“(viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;"

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebPrint/58 ... enDocument

EU, International Courts, or architects of Geneva Conventions do not seem to agree that Turkey is actually occupying North Cyprus by force or carrying out any crimes against humanity....

It's amazing you missed this...

UN RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

As for settlers, it is comical to think Turkey is moving its own population into N. Cyprus. The population movement is more economy
related than political!

Unfortunately for you, intenational law; as in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, 17 July 1998 posted above, doesn't seem to provide any loopholes for the occupying power.

...try lifting the embargoes on the TCs so that they can minimise their dependence on Turkey,

With all the pitiful rubbish that you and other Turkish Cypriots post to justify Turkey’s crimes against Cyprus, not only will your request above never come to pass but you’ll never even see the light of day on this island.

Turkey has no legs to stand on, and you have no legs to stand on, so don’t bother replying to this anymore as I’m not interested in anything from you.

[barouti]

The TC population has hardly increased since 1963 - whilst the GC population has doubled (and that includes the systematic importation of mainland Greek settlers between 1967 and 1974 into South). Work that one out then!

What a loud of rubbish. Care to provide a credible source confirming this so-called “systemic importation”! Nope, it’s a case of someone making it up…that someone being YOU! The first time I heard this latest Turkish claim was a few years ago. But that version claimed Greeks refugees fleeing the German invasion during WWII were settled in Cyprus, therefore changing the demographic balance in favour of the GC’s.

Had they not tried to erase the ethnic Turks from Cyprus - an aim often repeated by the GC leaders of the time including Makarios - perhaps we would not have been in this situation in the first place!

The Turks are the masters of erasing minorities. Just look at the Istanbul progrom of 1955! Care to explain what happened there? Please, I can’t wait to read it. But until then I’ll keep this thread in reality. It began with two lies by the Turkish state. The first one was that the TC’s were being exterminated in Cyprus (this myth still being perpetuated by your side, though more GC’s than TC’s were killed during the inter-communal violence of the 50's and 60’s). When that failed to get the Turkish mobs out into the streets in a bloody frenzy, then came the second lie: the Greeks had bombed the house Ataturk was born in Thessaloniki.

And lets not get started with the south-east and the Kurds, where you systematically destroyed 2000 Kurdish villages.

For two years in this forum I kept saying "embargoes will only hurt TCs and do nothing to Turkey" to no avail. Now the GCs are too worried about the settlers BUT are still vindictive against TCs as ever by trying to protest/block anything in economic or political sense that may help TCs stand on their own feet and MAYBE stop leaving the island!

Sure, once the embargo is lifted, the occupied north will experience a sudden prosperity that will make the world rename it the "Garden of Eden". And what is this prosperity going to be based on, selling off stolen property to opportunistic limey couples from the UK? "Mother" Turkey gives what is it, $500 million in freebies are a year, so the occupied north is far from starving. You do realise the green line is now open and from where GC's cross it to go to casinos in the occupied north.

I tell you what mate! The architects of this situation and their supporters can all fuck off instead, because I feel strongly, it is already too late to reverse the process - all the abuse in these forums will get you jack-shit!

The architect of the situation is Turkey. The problem began in the 50’s when Turkey had her expansionist eyes on Cyprus. It did and still does have to do with strategy, the island of Cyprus sitting off the southern coast of Anatolia. That’s why the TC’s were armed and encouraged by Turkey to create tension. That’s what happened. It has nothing to do with "protecting" the TC's from apparent genocide but Turkish strategic goal to control the northern part of the island.

[barouti]

(and that includes the systematic importation of mainland Greek settlers between 1967 and 1974 into South). Work that one out then!

I just need to highlight this bit. So according to you the GC's imported mainland Greeks and settled them only in the southern part of the island!