Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

What a pointless thread!

What? The worthy tradition of the very important CY cultural trait that is using bad language and crude imagery ...... pointless????? !!!!!!!

Rah Fredoulla, got any charcoal left mate?

How can you do BBQ in this weather? has you lost all your marbles?
Reh Bill what happend to Cengiz?

Er... 1. Who's Cengiz?
2. BBQ in garage.
3. I'll take a day off next week and nip down to the BM lest the blooming Atheneucians have pinched my Marbles.

Don't you remember Cengiz_H

Sorry mate but me brain's hurting ....

Who the F is this bleeding cove?

So if I have the coal, are we having Lamb or Pork?

Have just remembered who Cengiz is !!

Is it going to Lamb or Pork? Never mind cengiz, he pitched his tent elswhere.

You blooming cheapskate!

Want octopus, snails, cuttlefish, some nice fish etc ...

[Expatkiwi]

The following article is one I just read up on the internet. Any truth to this?

Reeta PAAKKINEN
Nicosia - HÜRRİYET DAILY NEWS
The future status of immigrants is one of the thorny issues in the Cyprus negotiations, with Greek Cypriots accusing Turkish Cyprus of altering the island's demographic balance.



The future status of immigrants is one of the thorny issues in the Cyprus negotiations, with Greek Cypriots accusing Turkish Cyprus of altering the demographic balance on the island by allowing immigration from Turkey.

But former Turkish Cypriot politicians say that focusing solely on immigrants from mainland Turkey implies double standards, as Greek Cyprus has allowed, among others, some 40,000 Pontic Greeks from Russia and thousands of Greeks from mainland Greece to settle on the island.

It is estimated that some 115,000 Turks have immigrated to the war-divided island since 1974. The so-called Annan Plan, which aimed to reunify the island but was rejected by Greek Cypriots in 2004, allowed 45,000 of them to remain on Cyprus.

Osman Ertuğ, former undersecretary of Turkish Cypriot Foreign Ministry, noted that while the Turkish Cypriot government has not questioned the immigration policies in Greek Cyprus, Greek Cypriots continue to criticize Turkish Cyprus for allowing immigrants from Turkey.

“Pontic Greeks are by no means the only immigrant group on the Greek side. There are also several other groups. Right after the events of 1963, where the origins of the Cyprus problem are, Greek Cypriots also gave citizenship to Greek soldiers who had come to the island to materialize enosis,” he said, referring to the Greek Cypriot movement that aimed to incorporate Cyprus into Greece. “This is in the reports of the United Nations’ secretary-general,” Ertuğ told Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review in Nicosia.

Immigrants in Greek Cyprus include also some 20,000 Lebanese who arrived in Cyprus during the Lebanese Civil War in the early 1980s and were later given Greek Cypriot citizenship. “If there are two equal sides in Cyprus, and you do not describe your own immigrants as settlers but describe the migrants of the other as such, it shows the depth of the discrimination you are applying to your partner. This is the main problem in Cyprus,” Ergün Olgun, former undersecretary of Turkish Cyprus presidency said. “Each authority has the right to regulate its own immigration system. We do not accept others trying to extend their sovereignty by saying we are getting in settlers. Human beings have migrated through history.”

Need for development

Immigration to Turkish Cyprus was motivated by the need to develop its infrastructure, Ertuğ said. “After the bizonal situation developed in 1974 and the population exchange agreement of 1975, we found the north to be in dire need of economic development,” Ertuğ said. “Properties needed to be taken care of. We would have been blamed for not looking after them just as much as we are being blamed today for bringing in population. We looked to Turkey for help because no other country was willing to help us.”

The rules Turkish Cyprus is applying to immigrants are the same as in Greek Cyprus, if not more strict, Ertuğ told the Daily News. “But we are not an impregnable fortress. We don’t think we should accept isolation as our fate and not let anyone in. We have immigration like any other country. This is being discussed at the negotiation table. We should not raise issues that are likely to cause further friction.”

One should not forget that it was particularly the nationalist factions of Greek Cypriots who initially tried to change the demographic balance on the island, he added. “Had it not been for the Turkish operation in 1974, the Turkish Cypriot community would have been driven out of the island and that would have been the ultimate demographic change on the island. But are we holding grudges because of this? No.”

The realities of globalization and worldwide immigration welcome the traveler soon after entering Greek Cyprus in central Nicosia through the Lokmacı gate. Philippine girls cleaning the windows of a fashionable clothing store, a Romanian lady selling handbags in a shop that has a branch on London’s Oxford Street, and a Bangladeshi youth serving a delicious chicken kebap in a nearby restaurant.

At an accessories store in central Nicosia, Maria, a local Pontic Greek woman from Georgia, said she came to Cyprus four years ago after living in Thessaloniki, Greece. Because Maria is Pontic, of Greek-Russian origin, and used to live in Greece because she has Greek citizenship, she has been able to enter and settle in Cyprus relatively easily.

Pontic Greeks are Russian-born Greeks whose families originate from the Black Sea region of southern Russia and Turkey. Most of them speak Greek or Russian as their first language, but many of them also learn Turkish from their families. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, thousands of Pontic Greeks left Russia and moved to Greece and Greek Cyprus.

There is ongoing debate on the exact number of Pontic Greeks in Cyprus, with some rating figures as high as 40,000 – with most of them residing in Paphos and Limassol. But the number of Pontic Greeks in Cyprus cannot be calculated with certainty since statistics cover only legal immigrants.

“Indeed, there are thousands of us [Pontic Greeks from Russia] here these days,” said Maria, who gave only her first name. “Cyprus has become very international, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union. I came here as life in Thessaloniki was not that great and heard that the salaries and atmosphere were better here,” she explained.

Even if formally Pontic Greeks in southern Cyprus are treated as “Greeks” and EU citizens, in practice many of them have faced discrimination in Greek Cyprus and in Greece. Especially in past, beatings and other racists incidents were common.

The immigrants in Greek Cyprus are by and large left to observe the evolution of the Cyprus issue from the sidelines and to wonder what their position in post-solution Cyprus will be. “I don’t follow it [negotiations] anymore. I used to,” Maria said. “It’s just dragging on and on, and getting increasingly complex. These days I just go on with my life, make my living and focus on my family.”

[Lit]

The following article is one I just read up on the internet. Any truth to this?

None whatsoever. Pontians are Greeks who originally come from the Pontus region around Trebizond, Turkey. They were ethnically cleansed from that region in the beginning of the 20th century and are now scattered. In the RoC, they constitute around 10,000 to 15,000. They have residence permits just like all other EU nationals who live in the south side. Whenever the settlers issue comes up here there is always one who mentions the Pontians as a counter argument. Congratulations, you swallowed the Turkish propaganda hook, line, and sinker. How does it taste?

There is no comparison....the Pontians are not settlers and are not given TC property. Can you see the difference? Pontians and their offspring do not receive Cypriot nationality.

Now, wont you agree with me that what happened to the Pontians in the 20th century was a crime against humanity, right? Where would you like for them to go...drift in the sea some where?

[Nikitas]

"as Greek Cyprus has allowed, among others, some 40,000 Pontic Greeks from Russia and thousands of Greeks from mainland Greece to settle on the island."

Notice the use of the weasel word "settle" thus equating the LEGAL residence with a residence and work permit of EU nationals in the south with the flood of "naturalised" settlers in the north. This is Turkish propaganda at its vintage best.

Pontians or other EU citizens who are in Cyprus as legal foreign residence DO NOT VOTE nor can they hold any local or central government office. By contrast the north offers citizenship to thousands upon thousands of imported Turks, gives them GC property and allows them employment in government posts. One of the "ministers" of the "government" in the north is a naturalised mainland Turk.

Oh, and one detail that might be relevant. The Pontians and others in the south do not have a 40 000 strong invasion army backing them up.

So Expatkiwi do us all a favor and keep your nose out of our business.

[Tim Drayton]

"as Greek Cyprus has allowed, among others, some 40,000 Pontic Greeks from Russia and thousands of Greeks from mainland Greece to settle on the island."

Notice the use of the weasel word "settle" thus equating the LEGAL residence with a residence and work permit of EU nationals in the south with the flood of "naturalised" settlers in the north. This is Turkish propaganda at its vintage best.

Pontians or other EU citizens who are in Cyprus as legal foreign residence DO NOT VOTE nor can they hold any local or central government office. By contrast the north offers citizenship to thousands upon thousands of imported Turks, gives them GC property and allows them employment in government posts. One of the "ministers" of the "government" in the north is a naturalised mainland Turk.

Oh, and one detail that might be relevant. The Pontians and others in the south do not have a 40 000 strong invasion army backing them up.

So Expatkiwi do us all a favor and keep your nose out of our business.

I believe that EU citizens can stand as candidates in municipal elections, actually.

[Expatkiwi]

Nikitas and Lit, I asked a civil question regarding that article. The answers you gave me indicate that both of you are anything BUT civil.

[wallace]

Nikitas and Lit, I asked a civil question regarding that article. The answers you gave me indicate that both of you are anything BUT civil.

Is this civil enough for you????
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.ns ... onventions

Now piss off with your propagande articles!

[Expatkiwi]

Nikitas and Lit, I asked a civil question regarding that article. The answers you gave me indicate that both of you are anything BUT civil.

Is this civil enough for you????
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.ns ... onventions

Now piss off with your propagande articles!

Sounds to me like that article may have some truth to it, judging from the vehemence of the replies against me. In case you missed it, all I did was ask if there was any truth to it. Instead of straight analytical comments, I got accused of fully supporting the article and a lot of accusatory abuse. So, either you people misjudged my question (which makes it stupidity), or the old adage "the truth hurts" came into play (which makes it vindictiveness). It doesn't seem to me to be a third possibility here...

[barouti]

Sounds to me like that article may have some truth to it, judging from the vehemence of the replies against me. In case you missed it, all I did was ask if there was any truth to it. Instead of straight analytical comments, I got accused of fully supporting the article and a lot of accusatory abuse. So, either you people misjudged my question (which makes it stupidity), or the old adage "the truth hurts" came into play (which makes it vindictiveness). It doesn't seem to me to be a third possibility here...

This coming from someone who is myopically pro-Turkish. So You post an article from a bias Turkish source and you have the audacity to ask if there is any truth in this? btw the replies were civil. You're so incredibly blinkered on the issue that whatever answer you're were given you would reply polemically anyway. Your being here has obviously an anti-Greek agenda. At least admit it.

btw you do realise Cyprus has a vibrant and prosperous economy, which requires migrants anyway. So explain to me, Sherlock, how can a few thousand Pontian Greeks can even change the demographics when the indigenous Greek population of the island are 85% of the population anyway!

I notice the article speaks of Pontian Greek. Geeze, you need to ask the Turks if there is any truth to it, because according to ROT (btw you just have love the acronym used by some Turks ) the Pontians are a Greek invention:

these immigrants, who did not even know Greek language, were injected and saturated with a forced "Pontus consciousness"
http://www.mfa.gov.tr/setting-the-recor ... key.en.mfa

What you need to do now answer is the question I asked you on the 3rd page of this thread:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus26773-20.html

Sure, it exposes you as the hypocrite. But hey! You can always use the disclaimer: "But I'm an ignorant American, what do I know?'

The answer is obvious: Nothing.

[EPSILON]

Almost half of the population in occupied Agios Amvrosios village are settlers from Turkey; 3500 new buildings are being constructed in the area

Under the title “The different population is attracting the attention”, Turkish Cypriot daily Halkin Sesi newspaper (12.10.09) reports that 55% of the inhabitants of occupied Agios Amvrosios village are Turkish Cypriots coming from the villages of Agios Nokolas, Marona and Ciyas [Tr. Note: Name as spelled] in Pafos area. The remaining 45% came from various places of Turkey and mainly from Mersin, Ankara, Sivas, Kayseri, Sakarya, Rize and Tokat. Furthermore, around 30 families of Turks from Bulgaria came and settled here in 1990.

The paper publishes statements by the so-called mayor of Agios Amvrosios, Erdal Barut who said that within the framework of decisions taken by previous “governments”, the occupied villages of Kalogrea, Hardjia and Trapeza have been included in the borders of Agios Amvrosios and added that together with these villages his “municipality” has around 2300 “citizens”. Mr Barut said that because of the great development 3500 houses are being built in this area. He argued that the population to which they provide their services is much more than the population which has been counted, as not all those who settled and live in the area are included in the 2,300.
(I/Ts.)

Small question. After so many years can someone explain to me what is the difference between settlers and these used to be called T/cs?