Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I always thought that it was universally accepted that some Turkish Cypriots are in fact Greek Orthodox converts, hasn't it been scientifically demonstrated that many in both communities share the same genes, how could they ever be called settlers?

Jerry, are you accusing me of not being a TC?

Could be, you could even be a descendant of Julius Caesar. I knew a TC from Lourinjina (?) who spoke Greek so well that a GC friend of mine could not tell what he was. To me the saddest thing about this whole business is that many GCs and TCs share the same blood.

That is how a racist would think. Human Rights do not distinguish according to "bloodlines". The crime is against the Human NOT his blood-type! It is only the Turks who have racially, ethnically cleansed by thinking along those lines and such "excuses" should not be allowed to be perpetuated any longer...

What a twisted logic! A racist is someone like you who makes derogatory remarks about a person simply because of his/her race.

She was referring to the fact that racists are those who differentiate based on Genetics. This is what the Nazis did in WW2.

Judging by your earlier post, Oracle is quite correct to class you as a potential racist.

You did state:

To me the saddest thing about this whole business is that many GCs and TCs share the same blood.

Bollocks Paphitis, more twisted logic. One race has joined the other, brother could be fighting brother and you say I'm a racist for finding that sad.

Now you are getting pathetic.

The GCs were fighting the invading Turkish Army purely for survival. The Turkish Army slaughtered thousands of GCs. How did the Turkish invaders transform into your "brothers"? And if they were your "brothers" are they to be excused of Human Rights violations ... simply because of their "blood"?

Your logic is flawed ...

Your problem is that you only see things at a superficial level, you only see what you want to see. If you didn't know the Turkish Army/ Turkish invaders are not Turkish Cypriots. Read what I wrote again. To me the saddest thing about this whole business is that many GCs and TCs share the same blood.

I have always believed that both sides ( Greek and Turkish Cypriots and their leaders) share some of the blame for the Cyprus Problem although most of it originates outside the island.

One could liken it to a civil war people with the same blood fight each other, surely that is even sadder than a conflict between two races who never had anything in common.

So, are you now blaming the TCs for the slaughter of thousands of GCs?

[Jerry]

Let me answer for her. She hates all Turks (Inc TCs) Period. She believes that they should all be driven out of Cyprus and Turkey so she can reform her little hellenic empire again.
All I can say to her is skase it aint gon a happen.

Well I appreciate your interpretation Fred but I would rather hear the answer from the horse's ( mare's actually in this instance) mouth.

[Oracle]

I always thought that it was universally accepted that some Turkish Cypriots are in fact Greek Orthodox converts, hasn't it been scientifically demonstrated that many in both communities share the same genes, how could they ever be called settlers?

Jerry, are you accusing me of not being a TC?

Could be, you could even be a descendant of Julius Caesar. I knew a TC from Lourinjina (?) who spoke Greek so well that a GC friend of mine could not tell what he was. To me the saddest thing about this whole business is that many GCs and TCs share the same blood.

That is how a racist would think. Human Rights do not distinguish according to "bloodlines". The crime is against the Human NOT his blood-type! It is only the Turks who have racially, ethnically cleansed by thinking along those lines and such "excuses" should not be allowed to be perpetuated any longer...

What a twisted logic! A racist is someone like you who makes derogatory remarks about a person simply because of his/her race.

Not twisted, but direct! If you think sharing a "bloodline" allows greater privileges (by being "saddest" when overlooked) than any actual respect of a person purely for unquestionable human rights; then you have to address your views. As for mine, I hate only the Turks for their behaviour in violating human rights and racially ethnically cleansing half of Cyprus ... If you think that is racist then it is further proof you are twisted!

Oh, you are far too clever for me. Tell me, do you hate all Turks, some Turks or do you in fact mean Turkish Goverments and what they have done to Cyprus?

Do you understand only at the superficial level?

Well that's what I call a pathetic cop out. Are you capable of giving a straight answer to my question, do you hate all Turks, some Turks or do you in fact mean Turkish Goverments and what they have done to Cyprus?

If you are able to read and comprehend; there is a full enough contextual answer in my original statement. If you want a playground answer; I also hate the Turk who pulled my hair and said "Baby Cyprus belongs to mama Turkey"!

When the Nazis were hated for their crimes, was it because people were being racist against them?

[Jerry]

So, are you now blaming the TCs for the slaughter of thousands of GCs?

No, where did I say that? The sad conflict between the two sides occurred before Turkey invaded and slaughtered; surely you knew that.

If you are able to read and comprehend; there is a full enough contextual answer in my original statement. If you want a playground answer; I also hate the Turk who pulled my hair and said "Baby Cyprus belongs to mama Turkey"!

I understand that your playground answer but cannot read or comprehend your full contextual answer because it does not exist. Are you too scared to give a simple straight answer for fear of being seen as a racist yourself?

[Oracle]

So, are you now blaming the TCs for the slaughter of thousands of GCs?

No, where did I say that? The sad conflict between the two sides occurred before Turkey invaded and slaughtered; surely you knew that.

But you said brother was fighting brother .... how many of those few hundred TCs/GCs killed before the 1974 Turkish invasion, were brothers who fought each other?

I understand that your playground answer but cannot read or comprehend your full contextual answer because it does not exist. Are you too scared to give a simple straight answer for fear of being seen as a racist yourself?

I placed it in bold for you, above ...

I hate only the Turks for their behaviour in violating human rights and racially ethnically cleansing half of Cyprus ...

Jerry if I thought the Turks were genetically inferior, it would excuse them from themselves. But they are inexcusable simply because they are human beings who should know better, and not themselves have a superiority complex, which gives them the self-appointed right to behave callously to others.

Right now, the Turks are as bad as the Nazis but just as they have managed to change their behaviour ... so can the Turks.

[Jerry]

You still refuse to say which Turks you hate. I really can't be bothered with your nit-picking any longer Oracle. No doubt you will see this as "capitulation" to your arguments, frankly I couldn't give a toss about what you think.

For the record the Nazis were not a race, the Turks, good or bad, are. The full contextual answer you refer to was not in your original post, which is why I said it did not exist.

[Oracle]

You still refuse to say which Turks you hate. I really can't be bothered with your nit-picking any longer Oracle. No doubt you will see this as "capitulation" to your arguments, frankly I couldn't give a toss about what you think.

For the record the Nazis were not a race, the Turks, good or bad, are. The full contextual answer you refer to was not in your original post, which is why I said it did not exist.

Then you are blind (amongst other things)! You quoted and re-quoted my original post with that extract ... Why don't you just scroll back (it may help reinforce your fallibility ).

So, why were the Nazis (a rather "uniform" lot) not a "race" but the rather heterogeneous population of Turkey is a "race", according to you?

You haven't got a clue, have you Jerry!

[Piratis]

Deniz, I never said that TCs are not Cypriots. What I am saying is that Turkey in the 21st century can not use the methods that Ottomans used in the middle ages to expand their empire.

But I will also agree with Oracle that TCs don't seem to be interested to be Cypriots. They seem to prefer to be something separate.

Until the 1950s most TCs spoke Greek. Some TCs even had Greek as their main language. Don't you think that it is perfectly natural for a minority to speak the language of the majority? You are a TC but you live in a place where English is the most used language, so you learned English. Is there something wrong with that? Do you think that the Greek or Kurdish minorities who live in Turkey don't know how to speak Turkish? Of course they do!

Unfortunately the TC leadership and Turkey did everything possible for stopping TCs from integrating with the rest of the Cypriot people, and they used force to reverse the process of integration by prohibiting from TCs to speak Greek.

Given time, this would have happened but for the events of the '60's. The prevalent Nationalist movements of both sides ruined that chance. Banning of the teaching of Greek in our secondary schools in 1958 ( I think) was a criminal act. Why did the British Authorities allow this? Now we know.!!

Deniz, when u evaluate issues u need to take into account the then circumstances... There weren't very good relations with GCs primarily at political level and significantly at social level from 40's and onwards... What was the situation in GC schools regarding teaching the Turkish language? Were they still teaching the Turkish language or they never taught it? 2 wrongs does not make 1 wrong but under such circumstances of late 50's retaliation could be considered logical...

Before 1950s when the British started to use TC auxiliaries to fight EOKA and the formation of TMT with the partition aim, the relationship between the two communities was very good and way better than the relationship between other groups, say left and right political groups. So don't exaggerate.

Many GCs spoke Turkish back then as well, but as I said it is the minorities who are expected to gradually integrate with the rest of the population, not the other way around. How many Turks (in Turkey) speak Greek, Armenian or Kurdish for example? Probably very few. On the other hand I doubt that there is even a single member of these minorities who lives in Turkey and doesn't know at least some Turkish. This is what is normal.

[Jerry]

Scroll back yourself, below is your original post to me in this thread. Who is confused? You quite clearly mis-interpreted the meaning of the statement that you consider to be racist. I put this down to your mindset.

I always thought that it was universally accepted that some Turkish Cypriots are in fact Greek Orthodox converts, hasn't it been scientifically demonstrated that many in both communities share the same genes, how could they ever be called settlers?

Jerry, are you accusing me of not being a TC?

Could be, you could even be a descendant of Julius Caesar. I knew a TC from Lourinjina (?) who spoke Greek so well that a GC friend of mine could not tell what he was. To me the saddest thing about this whole business is that many GCs and TCs share the same blood.

That is how a racist would think. Human Rights do not distinguish according to "bloodlines". The crime is against the Human NOT his blood-type! It is only the Turks who have racially, ethnically cleansed by thinking along those lines and such "excuses" should not be allowed to be perpetuated any longer...

[denizaksulu]

Deniz, I never said that TCs are not Cypriots. What I am saying is that Turkey in the 21st century can not use the methods that Ottomans used in the middle ages to expand their empire.

But I will also agree with Oracle that TCs don't seem to be interested to be Cypriots. They seem to prefer to be something separate.

Until the 1950s most TCs spoke Greek. Some TCs even had Greek as their main language. Don't you think that it is perfectly natural for a minority to speak the language of the majority? You are a TC but you live in a place where English is the most used language, so you learned English. Is there something wrong with that? Do you think that the Greek or Kurdish minorities who live in Turkey don't know how to speak Turkish? Of course they do!

Unfortunately the TC leadership and Turkey did everything possible for stopping TCs from integrating with the rest of the Cypriot people, and they used force to reverse the process of integration by prohibiting from TCs to speak Greek.

Given time, this would have happened but for the events of the '60's. The prevalent Nationalist movements of both sides ruined that chance. Banning of the teaching of Greek in our secondary schools in 1958 ( I think) was a criminal act. Why did the British Authorities allow this? Now we know.!!

Deniz, when u evaluate issues u need to take into account the then circumstances... There weren't very good relations with GCs primarily at political level and significantly at social level from 40's and onwards... What was the situation in GC schools regarding teaching the Turkish language? Were they still teaching the Turkish language or they never taught it? 2 wrongs does not make 1 wrong but under such circumstances of late 50's retaliation could be considered logical...

Somewhere along the line I missed this post Insan.

You talk of there not being 'good relations' at political level. What do you expect. Politics is just that. There will be differences. The need be thrashed out. If you talk of politicalparties, they will always bicker. They have always bickered among themselves too (within each community).

AKEL had many TC members and what happened to them . We all know their fate. Intimidated by the TMT, perhaps some even killed.