Cyprus-Forum.com

[james_mav]

At the risk of invoking the ire of the usual Greece haters, I get the feeling that this informal one off meeting, less than a week after Papandreou won the election, has had more of an impact than months of meetings between Christofias and the enemy (p)muppet leader.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa/media/ALeqM5hE6S68YrRLulmIDqASByPhL6LcaQ?size=l

[Get Real!]

You’d have to explain why to justify initiating this seemingly baseless thread, but then again Greek EOKA-B nationalists have the IQ of a constipated chipmunk!

[james_mav]

I find it difficult to believe that people are not at least open to the idea that the Cyprus problem has a significant Athens-Ankara dimension, in addition to the local dimension. The not-so-subtle signals coming out of mongolistan are telling:

There won’t be any need to break the ice. Papandreou is a well-known figure here...It’s symbolic that he’s making the first trip of his tenure to Turkey – it’s a great honour

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/769b2728-b4e6-11de-8b17-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

Being the son of a hardliner, having a track record of improving relations with our eastern friends, and being the kind of socialist the US likes to see in power, Papandreou has the political capital to grant some kind of concessions in order to solve, or at least make progress on, Greece's (and by obvious extension, Cyprus') foreign relations problems. Karamanlis clearly lacked this political capital, both at home, and abroad.

[Hermes]

I find it difficult to believe that people are not at least open to the idea that the Cyprus problem has a significant Athens-Ankara dimension, in addition to the local dimension. The not-so-subtle signals coming out of mongolistan are telling:

There won’t be any need to break the ice. Papandreou is a well-known figure here...It’s symbolic that he’s making the first trip of his tenure to Turkey – it’s a great honour

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/769b2728-b4e6-11de-8b17-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

Being the son of a hardliner, having a track record of improving relations with our eastern friends, and being the kind of socialist the US likes to see in power, Papandreou has the political capital to grant some kind of concessions in order to solve, or at least make progress on, Greece's (and by obvious extension, Cyprus') foreign relations problems. Karamanlis clearly lacked this political capital, both at home, and abroad.

Papandreou carries a lot of international respect especially in Britain and throughout Europe and the US. Papandreou will be a very useful ally for Christofias - in a way that Karamanlis could never be. I can see Turkey coming under more pressure internationally to change its belligerent stance as a result. Papandreou will no doubt inform Erdogan that it is in Turkey's interest to withdraw from Cyprus. Erdogan will do well to listen.

[james_mav]

Papandreou will no doubt inform Erdogan that it is in Turkey's interest to withdraw from Cyprus. Erdogan will do well to listen.

Some things are beyond the mighty Ergodan...politics in tourkia are considerably more opaque than they are in say Greece. Is erdogan in control of his military, and is the pressure they're putting on Greece in the Aegean a co-ordinated strategy, or is the military acting as a spoiler?

Or say Erdogan wished to extend an olive branch on Cyprus by withdrawing one of the two divisions occupying Cyprus (other threads on this board notwithstanding, the likelihood of a surprise attack by the Cypriot NG is precisely zero) - would the military comply? Or would they just ignore him, and completely undermine his political authority - both domestic and foreign - as well?

Even if Papandreou is listened to in Ankara, the turks, in their fashion will make no concessions of their own without gaining something. In terms of maritime boundaries, neither Greece nor Cyprus have any room to bargain - if Ankara is to join the EU, it will have to agree to and ratify the UN convention of the sea, and all arguments about if a continental shelf exists or not are in the hands of an arbiter whose decision is binding. Neither Greece, nor the RoC (if eventually recognised by erdogan) will ever bargain away any of their maritime rights guaranteed under UNCLOS.

[Oracle]

Did they swap their neckties?

Anyway, Papandreou is meeting with Christofias on the 19th so Cyprus is foregrounded in his agenda.

[james_mav]

Did they swap their neckties?

Anyway, Papandreou is meeting with Christofias on the 19th so Cyprus is foregrounded in his agenda.

I wouldn't bet on it. Cyprus will still be there long after the Greek state has lost its ability to pay pensions, the salaries of public servants, and interest on the public debt...and unlike our eastern friends, the Greek state can no longer just print more money!

[Oracle]

Did they swap their neckties?

Anyway, Papandreou is meeting with Christofias on the 19th so Cyprus is foregrounded in his agenda.

I wouldn't bet on it. Cyprus will still be there long after the Greek state has lost its ability to pay pensions, the salaries of public servants, and interest on the public debt...and unlike our eastern friends, the Greek state can no longer just print more money!

I visit Greece regularly and apart from an increasing number of (illegal) immigrants there for the pickings, I have seen no down-turn in its apparent economy. The Greeks keep their money as a well guarded secret

[james_mav]

Did they swap their neckties?

Anyway, Papandreou is meeting with Christofias on the 19th so Cyprus is foregrounded in his agenda.

I wouldn't bet on it. Cyprus will still be there long after the Greek state has lost its ability to pay pensions, the salaries of public servants, and interest on the public debt...and unlike our eastern friends, the Greek state can no longer just print more money!

I visit Greece regularly and apart from an increasing number of (illegal) immigrants there for the pickings, I have seen no down-turn in its apparent economy. The Greeks keep their money as a well guarded secret

Private Greeks certainly do keep their finances a well guarded secret, but the government is not so fortunate to have this luxury. The biggest problem for Papandreou is figuring out a way for his government to get its hands on some of that money private Greeks guard so jealously...i.e. by getting private citizens to pay their taxes! Economically, Greece has been living on borrowed time with borrowed money - Papandreou has to somehow convince the electorate that they ought to work harder, pay more taxes, and expect less in the way of wages and pensions (like those of us in the anglosphere have long but grudgingly accepted). Currency devaluations and runaway inflation to conquer mountains of debt are no longer an option. This will be a tougher nut to crack politically than anything he faces in the foreign relations sphere. A deal with our eastern friends would certainly help the budget - eliminating the need for new squadrons of type 214 submarines and F-16's fighters would lop tens of billions of the budget bottom line! Wishful thinking however.