Cyprus-Forum.com

[Jerry]

Jerry,

I think you have bought into the Turkish myth unfortunately.

The British Armed Forces are more than capable of removing the Turks from Cyprus single-handedly, let alone merely defending the bases! And it wouldn't need any help from the Australians or anybody else for that matter, despite what Paphitis is dreaming.

The Royal Navy is capable of completely cutting off Turkish supplies from the mainland (The Turkish Navy would simply be unable to cope with the British Nuclear Submarines (Trafalgar class (soon to be replaced by the Astute class)), which are undetectable and have the most advanced sonar system in the world. Further, Turkey would not have complete air supremacy either, as Britain has the RAF bases and aircraft carriers would be moved into the region. The British are armed with Tomahawk and Storm Shadow missiles, which means that the British would be able to attack Turkish cities and destroy infrastructure at will. Not forgetting the nuclear option that Britain has from the Vanguard class.

This leaves the land war. The British Army is far superior in training and equipment to the TA. The Parachute Regiment (part of 16 Air Assault Brigade) Royal Marine Commandos, SAS, SBS, Gurkhas, Black Watch, Royal Welsh Guards etc, these are some of the best troops in the world. With the GC National Guard behind them, it would probably only need about 10,000 British troops (+90,000 NG) to completely wipe the Turks out. Remembering that this time Turkey would not be able to re-supply.

Please do not be fooled into thinking the British can't do anything because of Afghanistan. Those bases are crucial to UK-US interests, and if those bases came under attack, the British would defend them. That you can be certain of. The Argentinians tried to call Britain's bluff in 1982, and look what happened.

Simon I have no doubt that in the right circumstances and enough notice the British forces could see off a Turkish assault on the island. The question is would they be prepared to make the necessary sacrifice to save Cyprus as opposed to just defend the bases.

Perhaps you can tell us how many fighter squadrons (with support personnel) the RAF has stationed on the island, how many British warships are in the eastern Med and what the strength of the garrison is. My guess is that by the time Britain had got sufficient reinforcements to Cyprus it would all be over.

[insan]

I suppose multiple-account owners trying to influence voting process in favour of war supporters. R there 25 participants debating under this thread?

[purdey]

Sorry Simon I disagree with you. The British Army, Air Force, Navy are fully stretched at present. I cannot see them coping with conflicts on two fronts.
As for the bases, at present they could not cope with a Division of Turkish regulars never mind a full on assault from land, air and sea.

[Simon]

Jerry,

I think you have bought into the Turkish myth unfortunately.

The British Armed Forces are more than capable of removing the Turks from Cyprus single-handedly, let alone merely defending the bases! And it wouldn't need any help from the Australians or anybody else for that matter, despite what Paphitis is dreaming.

The Royal Navy is capable of completely cutting off Turkish supplies from the mainland (The Turkish Navy would simply be unable to cope with the British Nuclear Submarines (Trafalgar class (soon to be replaced by the Astute class)), which are undetectable and have the most advanced sonar system in the world. Further, Turkey would not have complete air supremacy either, as Britain has the RAF bases and aircraft carriers would be moved into the region. The British are armed with Tomahawk and Storm Shadow missiles, which means that the British would be able to attack Turkish cities and destroy infrastructure at will. Not forgetting the nuclear option that Britain has from the Vanguard class.

This leaves the land war. The British Army is far superior in training and equipment to the TA. The Parachute Regiment (part of 16 Air Assault Brigade) Royal Marine Commandos, SAS, SBS, Gurkhas, Black Watch, Royal Welsh Guards etc, these are some of the best troops in the world. With the GC National Guard behind them, it would probably only need about 10,000 British troops (+90,000 NG) to completely wipe the Turks out. Remembering that this time Turkey would not be able to re-supply.

Please do not be fooled into thinking the British can't do anything because of Afghanistan. Those bases are crucial to UK-US interests, and if those bases came under attack, the British would defend them. That you can be certain of. The Argentinians tried to call Britain's bluff in 1982, and look what happened.

Simon I have no doubt that in the right circumstances and enough notice the British forces could see off a Turkish assault on the island. The question is would they be prepared to make the necessary sacrifice to save Cyprus as opposed to just defend the bases.

Perhaps you can tell us how many fighter squadrons (with support personnel) the RAF has stationed on the island, how many British warships are in the eastern Med and what the strength of the garrison is. My guess is that by the time Britain had got sufficient reinforcements to Cyprus it would all be over.

I'm glad that we agree Britain has the capability. I was under the impression that you were questioning this earlier. If the British bases came under attack, then I believe it is very unlikely that the British would just defend the basis and leave it there. The British would want to remove the Turkish threat, so as to guarantee the bases security in the future. Otherwise, just to maintain a military balance with Turkey on Cyprus, Britain would have to beef up its military installations considerably, which would be very expensive in the long-term, and unstable. At the very least, I think Britain would want to create a buffer between the Turks and the bases, which would involve pushing the Turks back.

With regards to how much notice Britain would need, I'm sure that you are aware that British could provide reinforcements to Cyprus at a moments notice. 16 Air Assault Brigade is specially designed as a rapid response air formation brigade, and numbers between 6,000-8,000 troops. The SAS, SBS and Royal Marine Commandos are also rapid reaction troops. Further, there are already about 3,500 British troops stationed in Cyprus. I do not believe that the Turks would be able to overwhelm Cyprus in days, the CNG numbers about 90,000 with some fairly modern weapons, and could easily hold Turkey up for weeks, especially with support from Greece. The most important factor is preventing Turkish supplies to the 35,000 troops currently stationed in Cyprus, and the required Royal Navy ships could be deployed to the Eastern Mediterranean in days, especially considering British intelligence would likely pick up on any proposed attack before it actually happened. It is implausible to believe Britain would have no notice whatsoever of a planned attack. Cutting off supplies would leave the Tukish forces as sitting ducks.

In saying all this, the likelihood of Turkey attacking the bases and Britain being drawn into a conflict is next to nil in my opinion.

[Simon]

Sorry Simon I disagree with you. The British Army, Air Force, Navy are fully stretched at present. I cannot see them coping with conflicts on two fronts.
As for the bases, at present they could not cope with a Division of Turkish regulars never mind a full on assault from land, air and sea.

They are fully stretched based on peace time resources and mindsets. Britain currently spends about 2% of GDP on defence and yet it is supposed to be at war. Let Turkey attack the bases and you will see the difference. I am convinced that to defend the basis, Britain would even scale down its operations in Afghanistan if needs be.

[Oracle]

Australia has the capability to render Greece's American arsenal and guidance systems redundant!

Will you PLEASE knock it off???

I don't think anyone else here is interested in what Australia can or cannot do... FFS!

Your the one that posted those ludicrous links and then made the very far fetched statement that Greece is even capable of fighting Australia...

Greece could not even fire upon Australia, but Australia could destroy attack Greek territory no problem!

Considering Australian society is made up of (1) intelligent, wealthy, educated Greeks and Cypriots; and (2) beer swilling, petty thieves and curry eaters ... then guess what your turnout for such a scenario would be ...

No doubt the decent Greeks and Cypriots would not deem to touch Greece ... but I'm not so sure about you, anymore

There are no Greeks or Cypriots in Australia Oracle. There are just persons with Greek names, as Australia has successfully claimed their souls.

The so called intelligent Greeks and Cypriots swill beer like real troopers...

Some so called intelligent Cypriots have also betrayed Cyprus for a few bucks, and if they did that to Cyprus then they would surely do it to Australia, so we have no use for these treasonous cowards and Cyprus is more than welcome to have them back....

but I'm not so sure about you, anymore

Well, I am disappointed that you would say that...

Well look at the pride you exhibit at the possibility of Australia attacking/destroying Greece.

Greece could not even fire upon Australia, but Australia could destroy attack Greek territory no problem!

First you (unfoundedly) rip into Cyprus in another thread, and now Greece. Fine if you've decided your allegiance is purely with Australia but don't expect us to accept criticism without comment.

[purdey]

Reads well Simon and that's what we are lead to believe as joe public and as serving soldiers. In reality it does not happen as a planned timetable. At present the British forces are over stretched, badly supplied and knackered.
Give us 6 months notice and we may be able to stop an onslaught.
I am afraid we would need the help of the Aussies, Yanks, Canadians, and anyone else that had troops in the area.

[Get Real!]

Ok, we’ve got a Australia Vs Greece, a Britain Vs Turkey, and does anyone else want to throw in another combination so we can TOTALLY derail the thread?

How about a Morocco Vs Laos… any takers?

[Get Real!]

I suppose multiple-account owners trying to influence voting process in favour of war supporters. R there 25 participants debating under this thread?

What’s the matter Insan…. has the fool fooled you again?

[Simon]

Reads well Simon and that's what we are lead to believe as joe public and as serving soldiers. In reality it does not happen as a planned timetable. At present the British forces are over stretched, badly supplied and knackered.
Give us 6 months notice and we may be able to stop an onslaught.
I am afraid we would need the help of the Aussies, Yanks, Canadians, and anyone else that had troops in the area.

The Royal Navy would be able to stop/seriously hamper Turkish supplies to Cyprus in a matter of days/weeks. Turkey wouldn't even put its Navy out to sea once it knows nuclear subs are in the vicinity. The GCs are the numerical majority on the island, and with Greece and the RAF providing air support, it is clearly do-able.

Like I said, Britain is over stretched when speaking relatively in peace time. But once a nation realises it is at war, things change. We are no longer on "operations" but at war. Britain would scale-down in Afghanistan to save the bases, if necessary. Turkey would also struggle to capture Akrotiri very quickly, giving Britain time. But even if both bases are lost, it still wouldn't prevent an amphibious assault at a later stage to re-capture the island. And the British wouldn't need significant help from other nations, as the GC NG is 90,000 itself. There are only 35,000 Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Britain and Greece would be able to bring supplies to the troops, with the Turkish troops practically being sitting ducks.