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Fact or Fiction ? Turks AND Kurds founded Republic of Turkey

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby zmx » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:05 pm

Oracle wrote:
This would suggest the population of Turkey is a newer arrival since it does not fit in with the demographics of the nearest neighbours.


LOL, thats not what it suggests at all, quite the opposite in fact. It actually suggests that Turkey has seen less influence from Central Asia and subsequently fewer numbers of newcomers than her eastern neighbors.

besides which when one looks at all the different haplogroups present in Turkey and her neighbors its seems as though Georgians are genetically the most similar to Anatolian Turks, although they (Turks) are similar to all their neighbors genetically.

Oracle" What are you trying to say here?[/quote]

I am saying that the Central Asian influence found in Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan etc is not solely down to Turkic settlement from Central Asia but is also down to Prehistoric population movements between Central Asia and the Caucasus and Asia Minor. the prehistoric settlers who came from the Central Asia werent Turkic as Turkic peoples didnt inhabit the region during that period.

[quote="Oracle wrote:

How do you explain the Syrian percentage?


Quite simple really. Anatolia historically has been heavily populated subsequently any Central Asian population movements into the region would have had limited influence, whereas Syria on the other hand was less/more sparsely populated so any CA migration there would have had a larger impact on the population.

Oracle wrote:Nothing is obvious and I am only hostile to racists who try to use genetics to prove revisionist politics ... and once again you yield to the desire to interpret without evidence.

Not only did you fail to provide evidence last time of Turkish "evolution" from Hittites but you failed again.

What is more, as I showed you last time with the world-wide haplotype distributions, lack of similarity to your neighbours (who have been there thousands of years), such as you present above (although it's meaningless without knowing the numbers tested) merely confirms Turkey is populated by relatively recent arrivals ... Quite the opposite of what you rushly propose.


I didnt fail at all to prove that the Hittites have signicant links to present day Anatolian Turks.

As for lack of similarity to their neighbors, Turks dont differ greatly at all to their neighbors as this haplogroup map shows:

Image

so again you fail.

all the haplotypes present amongst Turks are also present amongst their neighbors and in relatively similar percentages. No population in the entire world is identical to its neighbors as you can see above the French arent identical to Spaniards, the Germans arent identical to Poles however they all have similarities to one another as is also the case with Turks and their neighbors.

If you really want to see two neighboring populations who are genetically very different to each other despite their geographic proximity look at the pie charts showing the Iberian populations and North Africans. This indicates the two populations have very different origins to each other.
In no way do Turks differ from their neighbors in the same way as North Africans and Iberians do from each other.

Oracle wrote:Once again, you have picked an isolated study (without providing the actual science) which shows nothing more than disparate percentages. Your attempts to draw meaningful population demographics and migrations from such a simple study are absurd.


You can easily draw conclusions from these studies, that you dont like what the results show doesnt matter.
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Postby Oracle » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:17 pm

zmx wrote:
Oracle wrote:
This would suggest the population of Turkey is a newer arrival since it does not fit in with the demographics of the nearest neighbours.


LOL, thats not what it suggests at all, quite the opposite in fact. It actually suggests that Turkey has seen less influence from Central Asia and subsequently fewer numbers of newcomers than her eastern neighbors.


You are choosing an interpretation for which you have not provided any evidence. The results were not conclusive for such a statement because you would have to carry out vast comparisons of the type the Genographic project is doing ... not based on one experiment.

You failed to appreciate this last time; and you continue to draw absurd conclusions.

besides which when one looks at all the different haplogroups present in Turkey and her neighbors its seems as though Georgians are genetically the most similar to Anatolian Turks, although they (Turks) are similar to all their neighbors genetically.


These tests are not about proving genetic similarity. All humans are genetically similar. The Alu repeats and haplotypes do not suggest genetic dis-similarity. So, to say one group is genetically more similar than another based on your paper is again dangerous and wrong.

I am saying that the Central Asian influence found in Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan etc is not solely down to Turkic settlement from Central Asia but is also down to Prehistoric population movements between Central Asia and the Caucasus and Asia Minor. the prehistoric settlers who came from the Central Asia werent Turkic as Turkic peoples didnt inhabit the region during that period.


This is meaningless and has nothing to do with the paper you presented.

Oracle wrote:
How do you explain the Syrian percentage?


Quite simple really. Anatolia historically has been heavily populated subsequently any Central Asian population movements into the region would have had limited influence, whereas Syria on the other hand was less/more sparsely populated so any CA migration there would have had a larger impact on the population.


Another gross overgeneralization. You are trying to explain an anomaly in ONE result to fit your hypothesis. As I said earlier, it's also indicative the markers were not well chosen or insufficient.

[
I didnt fail at all to prove that the Hittites have signicant links to present day Anatolian Turks.


Where is the evidence?

And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.
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Postby runaway » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:22 pm

Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership
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Postby Oracle » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:38 pm

runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership


Haplogroups L and G (at least) suggest otherwise ... :lol:
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Postby runaway » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:48 pm

Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership


Haplogroups L and G (at least) suggest otherwise ... :lol:


R1a,R1b, J, K and I suggest you are my grandma. :shock: I love you O :?
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Postby Oracle » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:03 pm

runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership


Haplogroups L and G (at least) suggest otherwise ... :lol:


R1a,R1b, J, K and I suggest you are my grandma. :shock: I love you O :?


Poor wee orphan :( All this time you've just been searching for parents ... and now you've narrowed it down to half the world ... I always thought you were a 'bastard' ... :lol: :wink:
Last edited by Oracle on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:13 pm

Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership


Haplogroups L and G (at least) suggest otherwise ... :lol:


R1a,R1b, J, K and I suggest you are my grandma. :shock: I love you O :?


Poor wee orphan :( All this time you've just been searching for parents ... and now you've narrowed it down to half the world ... I always thought you were a bastard ... :lol: :wink:



:lol: :lol: :wink:
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Postby runaway » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:16 pm

Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
runaway wrote:
Oracle wrote:
And the haplotype map; it shows the population of Anatolia is more related to the Asian groups than European groups.


not only moron but blind as well :roll:

long live Turkish-Greek brothership


Haplogroups L and G (at least) suggest otherwise ... :lol:


R1a,R1b, J, K and I suggest you are my grandma. :shock: I love you O :?


Poor wee orphan :( All this time you've just been searching for parents ... and now you've narrowed it down to half the world ... I always thought you were a bastard ... :lol: :wink:


Even though she is a kariola, I won't be bad with nanny O. at least for tonight.
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Postby insan » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:42 pm

Have u noticed that only Turkey represents all 12 haplogroups on the map? 8)
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Postby YFred » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:45 pm

insan wrote:Have u noticed that only Turkey represents all 12 haplogroups on the map? 8)

That can only mean one thing, Turkey invaded all those countries, and we know what them Pashas were like with their Harems. :wink:
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