Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

I am keeping abreast of the situ in Turkey, but I do not often include these topics within the Cyprus Prob. I was responding to the previous statements made by O and I and was trying to make a point.

'I' had made a simple error regarding the banning and Ofcourse this opened up O's offense and her thanks to Insan. (One language in Turkey and all that). I believe Turkey was wrong, as each ethnic group has a right to speak and write their own language as I believe the same applies to Cyprus as well.'

[Tim Drayton]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

I am keeping abreast of the situ in Turkey, but I do not often include these topics within the Cyprus Prob. I was responding to the previous statements made by O and I and was trying to make a point.

'I' had made a simple error regarding the banning and Ofcourse this opened up O's offense and her thanks to Insan. (One language in Turkey and all that). I believe Turkey was wrong, as each ethnic group has a right to speak and write their own language as I believe the same applies to Cyprus as well.'

Point taken. It irks me to see so many comments made here about the status of the Kurds and Kurdish in Turkey that no longer apply.

[Oracle]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.

Official languages are not about whether the "peasants" can speak the language but whether the OFFICIALS can communicate in the Official language. As the peasants become more educated (has happened in the UK) then more of them will become bilingual using their mother-tongue daily plus the Official language as necessary ...

Or, are you telling us that it would be beyond TC politicians, lawyers, professionals to learn Greek (or at least English)?

If there is going to be realistic long-term unity, the outdated and unnecessary continuation of a SECOND OFFICIAL language (which does not even represent the next biggest "group" any more) is a major obstacle ...

[Oracle]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

I am keeping abreast of the situ in Turkey, but I do not often include these topics within the Cyprus Prob. I was responding to the previous statements made by O and I and was trying to make a point.

'I' had made a simple error regarding the banning and Ofcourse this opened up O's offense and her thanks to Insan. (One language in Turkey and all that). I believe Turkey was wrong, as each ethnic group has a right to speak and write their own language as I believe the same applies to Cyprus as well.'

Point taken. It irks me to see so many comments made here about the status of the Kurds and Kurdish in Turkey that no longer apply.

Things are not yet quite as rosy ... so carry on being irked. The current Islamisation of Turkey, which is now allowing some fellow Muslims to start to use their mother-tongues again, may be swept aside just as rapidly as has been known before whenever Ataturk's legacy was seen to be eroded ...

How many times have those headscarves been on and off the agenda?

[Tim Drayton]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.

Official languages are not about whether the "peasants" can speak the language but whether the OFFICIALS can communicate in the Official language. As the peasants become more educated (has happened in the UK) then more of them will become bilingual using their mother-tongue daily plus the Official language as necessary ...

Or, are you telling us that it would be beyond TC politicians, lawyers, professionals to learn Greek (or at least English)?

If there is going to be realistic long-term unity, the outdated and unnecessary continuation of a SECOND OFFICIAL language (which does not even represent the next biggest "group" any more) is a major obstacle ...

This is a bit like trying to discuss the properties of a universe that is incapable of supporting human life. A proposal for a united Cyprus in which Greek is the only official language would never gain the support of Turkish Cypriots and so is not going to happen.

[Oracle]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.

Official languages are not about whether the "peasants" can speak the language but whether the OFFICIALS can communicate in the Official language. As the peasants become more educated (has happened in the UK) then more of them will become bilingual using their mother-tongue daily plus the Official language as necessary ...

Or, are you telling us that it would be beyond TC politicians, lawyers, professionals to learn Greek (or at least English)?

If there is going to be realistic long-term unity, the outdated and unnecessary continuation of a SECOND OFFICIAL language (which does not even represent the next biggest "group" any more) is a major obstacle ...

This is a bit like trying to discuss the properties of a universe that is incapable of supporting human life. A proposal for a united Cyprus in which Greek is the only official language would never gain the support of Turkish Cypriots and so is not going to happen.

It's not about the TCs' short-term, self-aggrandising demands. If they had their way, we would suspend Democracy ...

Now is that right?

[denizaksulu]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

I am keeping abreast of the situ in Turkey, but I do not often include these topics within the Cyprus Prob. I was responding to the previous statements made by O and I and was trying to make a point.

'I' had made a simple error regarding the banning and Ofcourse this opened up O's offense and her thanks to Insan. (One language in Turkey and all that). I believe Turkey was wrong, as each ethnic group has a right to speak and write their own language as I believe the same applies to Cyprus as well.'

Point taken. It irks me to see so many comments made here about the status of the Kurds and Kurdish in Turkey that no longer apply.

My apologies for my part in this.

[Tim Drayton]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

I am keeping abreast of the situ in Turkey, but I do not often include these topics within the Cyprus Prob. I was responding to the previous statements made by O and I and was trying to make a point.

'I' had made a simple error regarding the banning and Ofcourse this opened up O's offense and her thanks to Insan. (One language in Turkey and all that). I believe Turkey was wrong, as each ethnic group has a right to speak and write their own language as I believe the same applies to Cyprus as well.'

Point taken. It irks me to see so many comments made here about the status of the Kurds and Kurdish in Turkey that no longer apply.

My apologies for my part in this.

Accepted, and my apologies for my delay in coming online to accept them.

[Oracle]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.

Official languages are not about whether the "peasants" can speak the language but whether the OFFICIALS can communicate in the Official language. As the peasants become more educated (has happened in the UK) then more of them will become bilingual using their mother-tongue daily plus the Official language as necessary ...

Or, are you telling us that it would be beyond TC politicians, lawyers, professionals to learn Greek (or at least English)?

If there is going to be realistic long-term unity, the outdated and unnecessary continuation of a SECOND OFFICIAL language (which does not even represent the next biggest "group" any more) is a major obstacle ...

This is a bit like trying to discuss the properties of a universe that is incapable of supporting human life. A proposal for a united Cyprus in which Greek is the only official language would never gain the support of Turkish Cypriots and so is not going to happen.

It's not about the TCs' short-term, self-aggrandising demands. If they had their way, we would suspend Democracy ...

Now is that right?

Silly me! I've just twigged ... Tim is a 'Turkish translator' ...

So, I guess he was talking from a personal, vested-interest point of view and nothing to do with logic, reason, practicalities and Democratic rights ...

[zan]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.

Official languages are not about whether the "peasants" can speak the language but whether the OFFICIALS can communicate in the Official language. As the peasants become more educated (has happened in the UK) then more of them will become bilingual using their mother-tongue daily plus the Official language as necessary ...

Or, are you telling us that it would be beyond TC politicians, lawyers, professionals to learn Greek (or at least English)?

If there is going to be realistic long-term unity, the outdated and unnecessary continuation of a SECOND OFFICIAL language (which does not even represent the next biggest "group" any more) is a major obstacle ...

This is a bit like trying to discuss the properties of a universe that is incapable of supporting human life. A proposal for a united Cyprus in which Greek is the only official language would never gain the support of Turkish Cypriots and so is not going to happen.

It's not about the TCs' short-term, self-aggrandising demands. If they had their way, we would suspend Democracy ...

Now is that right?

Silly me! I've just twigged ... Tim is a 'Turkish translator' ...

So, I guess he was talking from a personal, vested-interest point of view and nothing to do with logic, reason, practicalities and Democratic rights ...

Didn't you have some Turkish friends that you liked very much........Another F&£$@((G traitor!!!