Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

In case we unite under a federal state which 2 main ethnic groups of Cyprus would have political equality,

Turkish Cypriots are not a “main ethnic group” by any measure or definition. There are around 200,000 illegal Anatolian immigrants in the occupied territory and 60,000 odd Brits living legally in the unoccupied territory of Cyprus as permanent residents, so as you can see you’re not even the second largest ethnic group!

Christos je Panayia !

So the order in terms of numbers is ...

1.Grissies
2.Illegal Settlers
3.Ex-Pat Brits in Peyia
4.With Tissies bringing up the rear. !!!! ????

Bi-zonal? God forbid.this is 'Tetra-zonal'. I am outa here!!!

[zan]

In case we unite under a federal state which 2 main ethnic groups of Cyprus would have political equality,

Turkish Cypriots are not a “main ethnic group” by any measure or definition. There are around 200,000 illegal Anatolian immigrants in the occupied territory and 60,000 odd Brits living legally in the unoccupied territory of Cyprus as permanent residents, so as you can see you’re not even the second largest ethnic group!

Christos je Panayia !

So the order in terms of numbers is ...

1.Grissies
2.Illegal Settlers
3.Ex-Pat Brits in Peyia
4.With Tissies bringing up the rear. !!!! ????

Bi-zonal? God forbid.this is 'Tetra-zonal'. I am outa here!!!

Don't encourage them in their mental breakdown Deniz...That is irresponsible.....

Their little world should be slowly brought back to realities of life...Not too quickly though......Their fragile minds can't handle it!....http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26743....

We may not be recognised as the TRNC but we certainly are recognised as EQUAL PARTNERS....IOn the proccess, GR gets upgraded to a partner CYpriot and Bulbous Bobbit becomes a third class citizen......I love it when a plan comes together

[Tim Drayton]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

[zan]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

Turkey has never been so stable and can afford to do these things.....As it should be.

[Tim Drayton]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

Turkey has never been so stable and can afford to do these things.....As it should be.

There are theories that the Obama administration is behind this move. One version of this theory runs that if the US departs from Iraq without solving the Kurdish problem in Turkey, this will cause a great deal of instability in the region. If this is true, it suggests to me that the new US administration attaches a lot of importance to Turkey and its territorial integrity.

[zan]

[...] Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? [...]

This is history, Deniz. There is a fundemntal process going on in Turkey at the moment called the "Kurdish initiative". Every day new developments are witnessed that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. For example:

- The state broadcaster TRT has opened a new TV station which broadcasts all day in Kurdish.

- A public prosecutor issued a landmark ruling stating that sections of the electoral law which decree that only Turkish may be used in party political propaganda have ceased to apply.

- The chief of the police department in Diyarbakir has spoken of a need to recruit more Kuridsh-speaking police officers.

- The emergency telephone service in one of the eastern provinces (Siirt I think) now operates bilingually, with Kurdish speaking operators available.

- Only yesterday the governor of Diyarbakir (probably not a Kurdish speaker) began his speech opening a trade fair in that city with a few token words in Kurdish.

I can imagine that certain posters here will go to their death beds chanting the mantra that in Turkey, Kurdish is referred to as 'mountain Turkish', as though the days of Kenan Evren's fascist junta had never ended, but I hope that you are keeping abreast of developments.

Turkey has never been so stable and can afford to do these things.....As it should be.

There are theories that the Obama administration is behind this move. One version of this theory runs that if the US departs from Iraq without solving the Kurdish problem in Turkey, this will cause a great deal of instability in the region. If this is true, it suggests to me that the new US administration attaches a lot of importance to Turkey and its territorial integrity.

All Turkey has been trying to do is to bring its people to feel like they belong to a stable and secure country....Their tactics have not been the best IMHO....BUt then I don't know the real difficulties they have had to face.....

[Oracle]

Kurdish MPs, can't speak Kurdish in parliament because put aside the Turkish MPs; vast majority of the Kurdish origin MPs even can't understand and speak Kurdish. Besides if some Kurdish MPs speak and understand one dialect of Kurdish, they can't speak and understand other dialect of Kurdish.

So, you accept that ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

However, Turkey did worse than just ban Kurdish from official meetings: they banned Kurdish dialects from being taught or spoken generally, even by little children!

Under current circumstances of Turkey ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

Then I take it you will apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support the reasonable move to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus.

It is true that Turkish governments had done a very big mistake by banning the Kurdish dialects being spoken and taught.

Thank you insan. Such a thing is deplorable and would never happen in Cyprus.

In case we unite under a federal state which 2 main ethnic groups of Cyprus would have political equality, we couldn't apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support moveing to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus. How?

How would TC MPs speak and understand Greek speaking MPs? How would TCs read and understand what was written on official documents?

Now do you see how impractical, hypocritical and unfair your "2 main ethnic groups" and "political equality" demands in Cyprus are?

You have quashed and silenced the Kurds, in their home territory, and you have set out to do the same with us! If anyone gives you an inch (in trust), you abuse it and take a mile ....

No... I don't see our above mentioned demands as impractical, hypocritical and unfair.

Turkish governments did that mistake under their own political and economic circumstances. There r many other states that did similar mistakes; e.g, Greece to Macedonian,Turkish and muslim minorities, Russia to it's own ethnic groups, Spain to Basque and Catalon people.. etc.

Turkey hasn't set out to do the same to GCs; it's irrelevant... How did u come to a such a conclusion?

If anyone gives us an inch(in trust) be sure we would reciprocate it by having at least an inch of trust towards who trust us...

You see only what you want to see. You are asking of such a small country like Cyprus to accept a second Official language of Turkish, when the Kurds are denied that "luxury" by Turkey in their own country. Let alone the fact that Greek has been the language of the majority in Cyprus for thousands of years; yet, you would impose a second foreign language simply because 10% of the population do not want to learn Greek (or English). But, you expect 20 Million Kurds to not only speak Turkish but observe a ban from even social use of their own language.

This all comes about because you want to impose two ethnic groups with "political equality" to run the country instead of the more sensible and civilised Democracy the rest of us (majority) want. And to suit this outdated system, you add another divisive layer by insisting some speak Turkish!

And don't pretend Turkey is not out to completely remove the Greek language from Cyprus as they seem to have done a pretty good "accidental" job of renaming the GC villages ....

With your argument Oracle, are you saying Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? Therefore supporting your view that only one official language should be used in Cyprus.

IMO Turkey was wrong to ban these languages, I am sure you agree with this. Do you?

Deniz ... you are completely mixed up with the difference between having an Official languages and actually banning another language.

Turkey is too big to start with but, even so, ONE Official language is acceptable and practical. Same with the USA; ONE Official language. Same as in UK; ONE Official Language. The Official language is the legislative and administrative language and it serves to bind a nation, able to communicate as one and allows for the smooth operation of government without multitudes of translators and duplications of paperwork.

So, Turkey is within its rights to have ONE Official language and I would not argue, nor have done, with that prerogative. So, what you and Insan have to understand is that if it is acceptable in Turkey (your moral guide) to have only ONE Official language, then by the same token, that applies to Cyprus! The ONE Official language of the majority and historical tradition, Greek, suffices.

Now, it is a great leap to go from having ONE Official language to then BANNING any other language which is what Turkey has done with Kurdish. No way would Cyprus have ever behaved like that even in pre-civilised times; so, it's certainly not likely to follow in Turkeys' bad footsteps now and ban ANY language. Turkish, Armenian, Russian, Sinhalese (?), French can all be freely spoken in Cyprus without constraint ... but they do not ALL/ANY become OFFICIAL languages. I cannot condemn Turkey enough for banning a language with death penalties etc to enforce it ... it is directly equivalent to ethnic genocide!

[zan]

Kurdish MPs, can't speak Kurdish in parliament because put aside the Turkish MPs; vast majority of the Kurdish origin MPs even can't understand and speak Kurdish. Besides if some Kurdish MPs speak and understand one dialect of Kurdish, they can't speak and understand other dialect of Kurdish.

So, you accept that ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

However, Turkey did worse than just ban Kurdish from official meetings: they banned Kurdish dialects from being taught or spoken generally, even by little children!

Under current circumstances of Turkey ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

Then I take it you will apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support the reasonable move to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus.

It is true that Turkish governments had done a very big mistake by banning the Kurdish dialects being spoken and taught.

Thank you insan. Such a thing is deplorable and would never happen in Cyprus.

In case we unite under a federal state which 2 main ethnic groups of Cyprus would have political equality, we couldn't apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support moveing to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus. How?

How would TC MPs speak and understand Greek speaking MPs? How would TCs read and understand what was written on official documents?

Now do you see how impractical, hypocritical and unfair your "2 main ethnic groups" and "political equality" demands in Cyprus are?

You have quashed and silenced the Kurds, in their home territory, and you have set out to do the same with us! If anyone gives you an inch (in trust), you abuse it and take a mile ....

No... I don't see our above mentioned demands as impractical, hypocritical and unfair.

Turkish governments did that mistake under their own political and economic circumstances. There r many other states that did similar mistakes; e.g, Greece to Macedonian,Turkish and muslim minorities, Russia to it's own ethnic groups, Spain to Basque and Catalon people.. etc.

Turkey hasn't set out to do the same to GCs; it's irrelevant... How did u come to a such a conclusion?

If anyone gives us an inch(in trust) be sure we would reciprocate it by having at least an inch of trust towards who trust us...

You see only what you want to see. You are asking of such a small country like Cyprus to accept a second Official language of Turkish, when the Kurds are denied that "luxury" by Turkey in their own country. Let alone the fact that Greek has been the language of the majority in Cyprus for thousands of years; yet, you would impose a second foreign language simply because 10% of the population do not want to learn Greek (or English). But, you expect 20 Million Kurds to not only speak Turkish but observe a ban from even social use of their own language.

This all comes about because you want to impose two ethnic groups with "political equality" to run the country instead of the more sensible and civilised Democracy the rest of us (majority) want. And to suit this outdated system, you add another divisive layer by insisting some speak Turkish!

And don't pretend Turkey is not out to completely remove the Greek language from Cyprus as they seem to have done a pretty good "accidental" job of renaming the GC villages ....

With your argument Oracle, are you saying Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? Therefore supporting your view that only one official language should be used in Cyprus.

IMO Turkey was wrong to ban these languages, I am sure you agree with this. Do you?

Deniz ... you are completely mixed up with the difference between having an Official languages and actually banning another language.

Turkey is too big to start with but, even so, ONE Official language is acceptable and practical. Same with the USA; ONE Official language. Same as in UK; ONE Official Language. The Official language is the legislative and administrative language and it serves to bind a nation, able to communicate as one and allows for the smooth operation of government without multitudes of translators and duplications of paperwork.

So, Turkey is within its rights to have ONE Official language and I would not argue, nor have done, with that prerogative. So, what you and Insan have to understand is that if it is acceptable in Turkey (your moral guide) to have only ONE Official language, then by the same token, that applies to Cyprus! The ONE Official language of the majority and historical tradition, Greek, suffices.

Now, it is a great leap to go from having ONE Official language to then BANNING any other language which is what Turkey has done with Kurdish. No way would Cyprus have ever behaved like that even in pre-civilised times; so, it's certainly not likely to follow in Turkeys' bad footsteps now and ban ANY language. Turkish, Armenian, Russian, Sinhalese (?), French can all be freely spoken in Cyprus without constraint ... but they do not ALL/ANY become OFFICIAL languages. I cannot condemn Turkey enough for banning a language with death penalties etc to enforce it ... it is directly equivalent to ethnic genocide!

You have to secure the official language first.......Now tell me why the Greeks will not allow the use of the word Turkish in any of "their" organisations...Maybe to achieve a Greek unity???? Grow up girl......

[Oracle]

Kurdish MPs, can't speak Kurdish in parliament because put aside the Turkish MPs; vast majority of the Kurdish origin MPs even can't understand and speak Kurdish. Besides if some Kurdish MPs speak and understand one dialect of Kurdish, they can't speak and understand other dialect of Kurdish.

So, you accept that ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

However, Turkey did worse than just ban Kurdish from official meetings: they banned Kurdish dialects from being taught or spoken generally, even by little children!

Under current circumstances of Turkey ONE Official (administrative) language is more practical.

Then I take it you will apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support the reasonable move to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus.

It is true that Turkish governments had done a very big mistake by banning the Kurdish dialects being spoken and taught.

Thank you insan. Such a thing is deplorable and would never happen in Cyprus.

In case we unite under a federal state which 2 main ethnic groups of Cyprus would have political equality, we couldn't apply some similar logic to Cyprus and support moveing to have Greek as the ONE official language in Cyprus. How?

How would TC MPs speak and understand Greek speaking MPs? How would TCs read and understand what was written on official documents?

Now do you see how impractical, hypocritical and unfair your "2 main ethnic groups" and "political equality" demands in Cyprus are?

You have quashed and silenced the Kurds, in their home territory, and you have set out to do the same with us! If anyone gives you an inch (in trust), you abuse it and take a mile ....

No... I don't see our above mentioned demands as impractical, hypocritical and unfair.

Turkish governments did that mistake under their own political and economic circumstances. There r many other states that did similar mistakes; e.g, Greece to Macedonian,Turkish and muslim minorities, Russia to it's own ethnic groups, Spain to Basque and Catalon people.. etc.

Turkey hasn't set out to do the same to GCs; it's irrelevant... How did u come to a such a conclusion?

If anyone gives us an inch(in trust) be sure we would reciprocate it by having at least an inch of trust towards who trust us...

You see only what you want to see. You are asking of such a small country like Cyprus to accept a second Official language of Turkish, when the Kurds are denied that "luxury" by Turkey in their own country. Let alone the fact that Greek has been the language of the majority in Cyprus for thousands of years; yet, you would impose a second foreign language simply because 10% of the population do not want to learn Greek (or English). But, you expect 20 Million Kurds to not only speak Turkish but observe a ban from even social use of their own language.

This all comes about because you want to impose two ethnic groups with "political equality" to run the country instead of the more sensible and civilised Democracy the rest of us (majority) want. And to suit this outdated system, you add another divisive layer by insisting some speak Turkish!

And don't pretend Turkey is not out to completely remove the Greek language from Cyprus as they seem to have done a pretty good "accidental" job of renaming the GC villages ....

With your argument Oracle, are you saying Turkey is correct in banning the Kurdish Language? Therefore supporting your view that only one official language should be used in Cyprus.

IMO Turkey was wrong to ban these languages, I am sure you agree with this. Do you?

Deniz ... you are completely mixed up with the difference between having an Official languages and actually banning another language.

Turkey is too big to start with but, even so, ONE Official language is acceptable and practical. Same with the USA; ONE Official language. Same as in UK; ONE Official Language. The Official language is the legislative and administrative language and it serves to bind a nation, able to communicate as one and allows for the smooth operation of government without multitudes of translators and duplications of paperwork.

So, Turkey is within its rights to have ONE Official language and I would not argue, nor have done, with that prerogative. So, what you and Insan have to understand is that if it is acceptable in Turkey (your moral guide) to have only ONE Official language, then by the same token, that applies to Cyprus! The ONE Official language of the majority and historical tradition, Greek, suffices.

Now, it is a great leap to go from having ONE Official language to then BANNING any other language which is what Turkey has done with Kurdish. No way would Cyprus have ever behaved like that even in pre-civilised times; so, it's certainly not likely to follow in Turkeys' bad footsteps now and ban ANY language. Turkish, Armenian, Russian, Sinhalese (?), French can all be freely spoken in Cyprus without constraint ... but they do not ALL/ANY become OFFICIAL languages. I cannot condemn Turkey enough for banning a language with death penalties etc to enforce it ... it is directly equivalent to ethnic genocide!

You have to secure the official language first.......Now tell me why the Greeks will not allow the use of the word Turkish in any of "their" organisations...Maybe to achieve a Greek unity???? Grow up girl......

Same reason why every other country in the world does not allow a foreign nationalistic assignment to a state institution ....

[Tim Drayton]

I think an important criterion in determining whether a country may justly impose a single official language is whether the vast majority of the population is fluent and literate in that language. In most South American countries, speakers of indigenuous languages are also fluent in Spanish (or Portugese in Brazil), so there is no problem with having a single official language. In Turkey, almost everybody has a native-speaker level command of Turkish even if they also speak one of the other 30 odd languages that are in use there. So nobody is disadvantaged by having Turkish as the official language. On the other hand, most Tamils in Sri Lanka do not speak much Sinhalese, if any, so this community would be greatly disadvantaged if Sinhalese were to be imposed as the sole official language. One of the results of the de facto partition of the island since 1974 is that very few TCs can speak Greek. The TC community would clearly become marginalised if Greek were to be imposed as the only language in a putative united Cyprus.