Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Ha ha ha " to establish Rot". This "rotten" country now thinks it will join the EU.

Illiteracy kills...

The Kurds and Islam

Martin van Bruinessen

It has repeatedly been observed that the first great Kurdish rebellion in Turkey, led by Shaykh Sa`id in 1925, was an uprising of Zaza-speaking Sunni Muslim tribes and was actively opposed by some of the neighbouring Zaza-speaking Alevi tribes, and that the 1937 rebellion in Dersim involved only Alevis and was not supported by any Sunni Kurds.

http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruines ... _Islam.htm


CIA report:



http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000025 ... 6_0001.gif


The future of Turkish foreign policy

Lenore G. Martin, Dimitris Keridis






link

[Get Real!]

This seems like one of those Greece Vs Turkey threads so it should be moved to Politics and Elections.

[denizaksulu]

Ha ha ha " to establish Rot". This "rotten" country now thinks it will join the EU.

Illiteracy kills...

The Kurds and Islam

Martin van Bruinessen

It has repeatedly been observed that the first great Kurdish rebellion in Turkey, led by Shaykh Sa`id in 1925, was an uprising of Zaza-speaking Sunni Muslim tribes and was actively opposed by some of the neighbouring Zaza-speaking Alevi tribes, and that the 1937 rebellion in Dersim involved only Alevis and was not supported by any Sunni Kurds.

http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruines ... _Islam.htm


CIA report:



http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000025 ... 6_0001.gif


The future of Turkish foreign policy

Lenore G. Martin, Dimitris Keridis






link

Thanks for the links. Not an easy subject to search for.

[insan]

Ha ha ha " to establish Rot". This "rotten" country now thinks it will join the EU.

Illiteracy kills...

The Kurds and Islam

Martin van Bruinessen

It has repeatedly been observed that the first great Kurdish rebellion in Turkey, led by Shaykh Sa`id in 1925, was an uprising of Zaza-speaking Sunni Muslim tribes and was actively opposed by some of the neighbouring Zaza-speaking Alevi tribes, and that the 1937 rebellion in Dersim involved only Alevis and was not supported by any Sunni Kurds.

http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruines ... _Islam.htm


CIA report:



http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000025 ... 6_0001.gif


The future of Turkish foreign policy

Lenore G. Martin, Dimitris Keridis






link

Thanks for the links. Not an easy subject to search for.

Thanks Piratis, Oracle, GreekForumer, Grokked and some other Hellenes who for some years forced me to research on this issue and as a consequence, I've almost become one of the experts of Kurdish Problem of Turkey...

[GreekForumer]

From the other thread,

Insan, do you concede your statement is misleading ?

If not, devise a simple test poll or questionnaire to prove it isn't. Ball is in your court.

Then we can put this thread to rest.

There's nothing misleading in my statements...

Really? Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth?

1. Kurds were persuaded to fight for a secular republic and in accordance with their wishes, they got a secular republic
2. Kurds were deceived to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state and against their wishes, a Kurd-free secular republic was violently forced upon them.

C'mon Insan, no cut and paste required! No big essay required!

What is your answer ? 1 or 2 ?
"Closest" does not mean "exact".

None... go study Alevi, Sunni crisis among Kurds and come again with more options... Nevertheless, a) is closer... study a bit more and u will see the whole picture...

Are you kidding me ?

If you go to the first post in this thread you will find 8 UNAMBIGUOUS google books references to equal-rights / autonomy i.e. Kurdish-Turkish Brotherhood state. I challenge you to go to google books and find at least 2 UNAMBIGUOUS references that say something different for the period 1919-1922. Not only that, I want at least one reference that explains why researches who believe the "equal rights" view are mistaken. Researchers read their peers material you know.

Let's try again. This time step by step.

Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth ?

1. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a secular state.
2. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state.

If you are not happy with those 2 options then fill in the blank
Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a <blank>

[GreekForumer]

You've asked for it Insan. I've called in the "Big Guns".

I've been involved in campaigns for the last twenty plus years for the right of Kurdish self-determination.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 775#215775

Give him the facts, CopperLine!

[insan]

From the other thread,

Insan, do you concede your statement is misleading ?

If not, devise a simple test poll or questionnaire to prove it isn't. Ball is in your court.

Then we can put this thread to rest.

There's nothing misleading in my statements...

Really? Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth?

1. Kurds were persuaded to fight for a secular republic and in accordance with their wishes, they got a secular republic
2. Kurds were deceived to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state and against their wishes, a Kurd-free secular republic was violently forced upon them.

C'mon Insan, no cut and paste required! No big essay required!

What is your answer ? 1 or 2 ?
"Closest" does not mean "exact".

None... go study Alevi, Sunni crisis among Kurds and come again with more options... Nevertheless, a) is closer... study a bit more and u will see the whole picture...

Are you kidding me ?

If you go to the first post in this thread you will find 8 UNAMBIGUOUS google books references to equal-rights / autonomy i.e. Kurdish-Turkish Brotherhood state. I challenge you to go to google books and find at least 2 UNAMBIGUOUS references that say something different for the period 1919-1922. Not only that, I want at least one reference that explains why researches who believe the "equal rights" view are mistaken. Researchers read their peers material you know.

Let's try again. This time step by step.

Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth ?

1. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a secular state.
2. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state.

If you are not happy with those 2 options then fill in the blank
Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a <blank>

The common interests of Turkic and Kurdic people united them against the enemy... they fought together against the enemy and establish the RoT as equal citizens of RoT...

Some self-interested Kurdic tribe sheiks backed by imperialists decieved and forced some Kurdic people to revolt against RoT but they failed...

Under such circumstances, for the sake of maintaining the existence of secular, multi-ethnic Turkic state; the dominant Turkic political power decided to use force, harsh treatment against rebells and take the necessary steps in order to unite the people of Turkey under the national consciousness of Turkishness(Turkicness)...

Since 1923; Kurds and Turks r equal citizens of RoT... more than half of the Turkish parliament comprise of Kurdish, Kurdish-Turkish, Kurdish-Arabic, Kurdish-etc origin deputies...

Don't confuse the self-interested, rebelling Kurdish Sheiks and terrorists with multi-ethnic Kurdic people...

... however, if someday as a consequence of geo-politics carried out by other countries lead a Turkic-Kurdic federation; that's another story...

[GreekForumer]

Insan, this is fascinating! Why can't you answer simple, unambiguous questions ?

Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth ?

1. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a secular state.
2. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state.

If you are not happy with those 2 options then fill in the blank.

Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a <blank>

[james_mav]

Insan, this is fascinating! Why can't you answer simple, unambiguous questions ?

Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth ?

1. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a secular state.
2. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state.

If you are not happy with those 2 options then fill in the blank.

Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a <blank>

Is it not incredible how some will not answer a question so simply put. Nor will they explain why they reject the premise of your question; they just simply ignore it or provide an answer to a completely different, irrelevant, and usually unstated question. Consider it an acknowledgment of defeat and move on!

[denizaksulu]

Insan, this is fascinating! Why can't you answer simple, unambiguous questions ?

Which of the following 2 statements is closest to the truth ?

1. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a secular state.
2. Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood state.

If you are not happy with those 2 options then fill in the blank.

Ataturk persuaded the Kurds to fight for a <blank>

If I may butt in.

We all know that Mustafa Kemal did enlist the help of the Kurdish tribes during the 'War of Independence'. There was always friction between the Ottomans and its Kurdish subjects - as they were semi-nomads. It was know at the time that in times of war they were mostly unreliable. They would oft cross the border into Iran to avoid Taxes imposed per 'tent'.

Not much detail of the Kurdish - Turkish agreements are found in Turkish sources or are very hard to come by.

I am sure Insan is researching well, to give you his honest answer. I, rightly or wrongly, suspect you have a link somewhere up your sleeve. Insan might suspect that too. Give him time. We are all waiting.