Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

We have fully adjusted to partition; we are content with it and that this is now a conscious choice.

Umm... NO

[zan]

Nick now do you understand how we see GCs? these are prime examples of how we would be seen in a united Cyprus..South African example or not it will not work with GCs they see the island as their own with us as just another minority.

Hello Viewpoint,

Thanks for the insight. Certainly, changing people's mindsets, prejudices and outlooks is not something that can be done overnight nor as easy as the political solution. Whereas the political can be solved through some swift and courageous decisions, prejudice can only be changed over time. However,do not stereotype everyone with the opinions of extremists.

In my opinion, in order to facilitate a change in the mindset the political solution needs to be in place. I can think of two specific examples in this particular instance. Firstly (and again yes) in South Africa just after the two Anglo-Boer Wars (where the English exterminated close to 30000 Boers - largely women and children - in concentration camps) the Boers and the English hated each other with a passion yet today the hatred and animosity has been replaced to such an extent that intermarriage, friendships etc is the norm between these two groups. The post-war generations were made to live together,learn each others languages and customs and given ownership of a common South African identity. This process was not without its faults naturally, but that which is of interest to our discussion is how the relations between the two communities improved to where they are today. Extremists will still be found but that will happen in every situation and they are the exception to the rule.

The second example is that of the Cypriot community in the UK and London in particular - that I have had experience of. There is very little animosity between GC's and TC's in London in my expreience. In fact there is more animosity between the Kurds and the Turks. Many of my colleagues are GC's, TC's or mainland Turks and we get on fine. If it can be done here then why not in Cyprus too?

As I said before,the two communities can live together but it'll take some courage of people on both sides to make decisions that they may not like but if they truly want a solution it can then not be avoided. Also,just as we GC's and TC's may disagree and mistrust each other, even within our own ethnic communities you will find that there is disagreement and mistrust. So it is important to see the differences that we have between GC's and TC's within the greater context of the Cypriot mentality. Here endeth my sermon! Lunch awaits..

Hope you had a good lunch...

The SA example may have some positive aspects which can be drawn upon but on the whole SA is one of the most violent and racist countires in the world so on the whole not anything we should aspire to.

As for the TCs and GCs livinf in London one of which I was for 30 years...let me ask you who rules them? did they accept to abide by those rules when they decided to settle there? it is a totally different environment where "Cypriots" are happy to see anyone from the island of Cyprus they have no qualms about power sharing or security asthey are not exposed to these issues by the British...it is totally different here where we are the indigenous people who cannot agree how we will run the island together thats why we have had to separate, so the comparison is not a very good one and should not be seen as if it works there it should work here.

I went to a meeting a few months ago at a TC newspaper offices and we asked why their was no TRNC flag flying outside.......The owner said that if he did there would be a gang of GCs there within minutes to smash his windows and cause mayhem.

It seems the only people that are keeping the peace is the TCs. If the certain TCs were to adapt the same strategy then all hell would brake loose in London.

I have nothing against Cypriot Nicks rosy outlook on life but Nick, YOu can't ignore realities. There are two ways of dealing with the problem......Go in with angel wings and come out with stumps or use those wings to sore above the maddening crowd and observe reality.

I guess it would be the same feeling the Brits would have had if the UK was invaded by the Nazi's and the swastika jack was flying outside an office in New York rather than the union jack.

We could argue the same point, from 1963 on, about the "RoC" flag.......

[Gregory]

Nick now do you understand how we see GCs? these are prime examples of how we would be seen in a united Cyprus..South African example or not it will not work with GCs they see the island as their own with us as just another minority.

Hello Viewpoint,

Thanks for the insight. Certainly, changing people's mindsets, prejudices and outlooks is not something that can be done overnight nor as easy as the political solution. Whereas the political can be solved through some swift and courageous decisions, prejudice can only be changed over time. However,do not stereotype everyone with the opinions of extremists.

In my opinion, in order to facilitate a change in the mindset the political solution needs to be in place. I can think of two specific examples in this particular instance. Firstly (and again yes) in South Africa just after the two Anglo-Boer Wars (where the English exterminated close to 30000 Boers - largely women and children - in concentration camps) the Boers and the English hated each other with a passion yet today the hatred and animosity has been replaced to such an extent that intermarriage, friendships etc is the norm between these two groups. The post-war generations were made to live together,learn each others languages and customs and given ownership of a common South African identity. This process was not without its faults naturally, but that which is of interest to our discussion is how the relations between the two communities improved to where they are today. Extremists will still be found but that will happen in every situation and they are the exception to the rule.

The second example is that of the Cypriot community in the UK and London in particular - that I have had experience of. There is very little animosity between GC's and TC's in London in my expreience. In fact there is more animosity between the Kurds and the Turks. Many of my colleagues are GC's, TC's or mainland Turks and we get on fine. If it can be done here then why not in Cyprus too?

As I said before,the two communities can live together but it'll take some courage of people on both sides to make decisions that they may not like but if they truly want a solution it can then not be avoided. Also,just as we GC's and TC's may disagree and mistrust each other, even within our own ethnic communities you will find that there is disagreement and mistrust. So it is important to see the differences that we have between GC's and TC's within the greater context of the Cypriot mentality. Here endeth my sermon! Lunch awaits..

Hope you had a good lunch...

The SA example may have some positive aspects which can be drawn upon but on the whole SA is one of the most violent and racist countires in the world so on the whole not anything we should aspire to.

As for the TCs and GCs livinf in London one of which I was for 30 years...let me ask you who rules them? did they accept to abide by those rules when they decided to settle there? it is a totally different environment where "Cypriots" are happy to see anyone from the island of Cyprus they have no qualms about power sharing or security asthey are not exposed to these issues by the British...it is totally different here where we are the indigenous people who cannot agree how we will run the island together thats why we have had to separate, so the comparison is not a very good one and should not be seen as if it works there it should work here.

I went to a meeting a few months ago at a TC newspaper offices and we asked why their was no TRNC flag flying outside.......The owner said that if he did there would be a gang of GCs there within minutes to smash his windows and cause mayhem.

It seems the only people that are keeping the peace is the TCs. If the certain TCs were to adapt the same strategy then all hell would brake loose in London.

I have nothing against Cypriot Nicks rosy outlook on life but Nick, YOu can't ignore realities. There are two ways of dealing with the problem......Go in with angel wings and come out with stumps or use those wings to sore above the maddening crowd and observe reality.

I guess it would be the same feeling the Brits would have had if the UK was invaded by the Nazi's and the swastika jack was flying outside an office in New York rather than the union jack.

We could argue the same point, from 1963 on, about the "RoC" flag.......

I don't think we could but feel free to put forward your best case.

[zan]

Nick now do you understand how we see GCs? these are prime examples of how we would be seen in a united Cyprus..South African example or not it will not work with GCs they see the island as their own with us as just another minority.

Hello Viewpoint,

Thanks for the insight. Certainly, changing people's mindsets, prejudices and outlooks is not something that can be done overnight nor as easy as the political solution. Whereas the political can be solved through some swift and courageous decisions, prejudice can only be changed over time. However,do not stereotype everyone with the opinions of extremists.

In my opinion, in order to facilitate a change in the mindset the political solution needs to be in place. I can think of two specific examples in this particular instance. Firstly (and again yes) in South Africa just after the two Anglo-Boer Wars (where the English exterminated close to 30000 Boers - largely women and children - in concentration camps) the Boers and the English hated each other with a passion yet today the hatred and animosity has been replaced to such an extent that intermarriage, friendships etc is the norm between these two groups. The post-war generations were made to live together,learn each others languages and customs and given ownership of a common South African identity. This process was not without its faults naturally, but that which is of interest to our discussion is how the relations between the two communities improved to where they are today. Extremists will still be found but that will happen in every situation and they are the exception to the rule.

The second example is that of the Cypriot community in the UK and London in particular - that I have had experience of. There is very little animosity between GC's and TC's in London in my expreience. In fact there is more animosity between the Kurds and the Turks. Many of my colleagues are GC's, TC's or mainland Turks and we get on fine. If it can be done here then why not in Cyprus too?

As I said before,the two communities can live together but it'll take some courage of people on both sides to make decisions that they may not like but if they truly want a solution it can then not be avoided. Also,just as we GC's and TC's may disagree and mistrust each other, even within our own ethnic communities you will find that there is disagreement and mistrust. So it is important to see the differences that we have between GC's and TC's within the greater context of the Cypriot mentality. Here endeth my sermon! Lunch awaits..

Hope you had a good lunch...

The SA example may have some positive aspects which can be drawn upon but on the whole SA is one of the most violent and racist countires in the world so on the whole not anything we should aspire to.

As for the TCs and GCs livinf in London one of which I was for 30 years...let me ask you who rules them? did they accept to abide by those rules when they decided to settle there? it is a totally different environment where "Cypriots" are happy to see anyone from the island of Cyprus they have no qualms about power sharing or security asthey are not exposed to these issues by the British...it is totally different here where we are the indigenous people who cannot agree how we will run the island together thats why we have had to separate, so the comparison is not a very good one and should not be seen as if it works there it should work here.

I went to a meeting a few months ago at a TC newspaper offices and we asked why their was no TRNC flag flying outside.......The owner said that if he did there would be a gang of GCs there within minutes to smash his windows and cause mayhem.

It seems the only people that are keeping the peace is the TCs. If the certain TCs were to adapt the same strategy then all hell would brake loose in London.

I have nothing against Cypriot Nicks rosy outlook on life but Nick, YOu can't ignore realities. There are two ways of dealing with the problem......Go in with angel wings and come out with stumps or use those wings to sore above the maddening crowd and observe reality.

Zan, guys et al,

How long are you guys going to let yourselves be held captive by the extremists? Guys,lead by example. Reality is what you make it.

The reality of the TC people is that we want representation on our own island and that no such thing exists in the modern day "RoC".....You can only achieve YOUR reality by ignoring ours......Not really fair is it!