Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Piratis, you are wasting you time. You actually believe that things will stay as they are if we waste another opportunity for a compromise solution? Perhaps you should read the dark philosophers who some thousand of years ago told us that nothing remains the same in time. Everything changes and you cannot take a bath in the same river twice.

You are having illusions if you saw an opportunity for a solution. Annan plan was an opportunity for the Turks who would get to (1) officially Turkify 1/3rd of Cyprus, (2) control the whole of Cyprus and silence the Cypriots and (3) stop having any consequences for illegally occupying part of Cyprus (since Annan plan would legalize their occupation). For us the Annan plan would create more problems than the few that could solve, and would officially partition Cyprus. Such thing is not called "solution".

Things never stay the same, and that is exactly why there is hope and there is no need for us to suicide. We might not be able to solve the Cyprus problem today but with our policy we are able to either improve our position or make it worst. A correct policy is not the one which aims for the impossible (unifying Cyprus under the current balance of power) but one which recognizes the current reality and aims to strengthen the position of Cyprus and increases the possibilities that Cyprus will be able to take advantage of any possible changes in the balance of power in the future. Everything, including the negotiations (which we should insist that should continue, but also start demanding direct negotiations with Turkey) should be made with these facts in mind.

...plese read my manifesto.

[Bananiot]

B25, you have a problem reading my posts. Did you read carefully what I said about the guarantors?

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Really, you have exposed your fascist disposition, by calling people with a different from yours view, pro turkish and worth murdering in the true spirit of EOKA fiends who not only murdered more Greek Cypriots than Brits but paved the way for the eventual destruction of Cyprus with the tactics they chose to employ in order to unite Cyprus with Greece.

[B25]

B25, you have a problem reading my posts. Did you read carefully what I said about the guarantors?

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Really, you have exposed your fascist disposition, by calling people with a different from yours view, pro turkish and worth murdering in the true spirit of EOKA fiends who not only murdered more Greek Cypriots than Brits but paved the way for the eventual destruction of Cyprus with the tactics they chose to employ in order to unite Cyprus with Greece.

Banaiot, I ready your post and I know exactly what you are about. I have no interest in Greece, that ideal was nearly 50 years ago, let it go, I am talking about ridding this country of a cancer that you openly support.

Everything is impossible for you, you don't even want to consider ways around the problem, just give up, let them take what they want and we to shut up!

No Bananiot, I won't, not you or any one else is going to silence me, until we are rid of this disease.

I understand you have your views but when it impinges and affects the greater good of my people then I will oppose you. and anyone else.

Bananiot a challenge, I am willing to die for my belief, are you?

[Piratis]

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Can you tell me what in the term "BBF" requires that settlers should stay in Cyprus??? Absolutely nothing. In fact we never agreed that any Settlers will stay in Cyprus, let alone have some universal agreement on this. The settler issue is just part of the give and take, and we might accept a certain number of Settlers to stay if the TCs also accept several other things that would make a solution acceptable to us.

Also a solution based on "BBF" does not preclude all refugees from returning to their homes. All that "BBF" says is that we will have a Federation with 2 states (Bi-zonal) and with each state having as a majority one of the communities (Bi-Communal). If the "TC State" is small enough and encompasses mostly areas where the TCs have been the majority before 74 + some government land, then all refugees can return to their homes and we will still have a BBF as a result.

"BBF" is a term that means very little. It just means "bicommunal bizonal federation" as I described it above, and nothing more.

Here is a BBF that most Cypriots would agree to:

The Turks demand 29%+ of land for their 18% minority. That is 11% more than their population ratio. So lets reverse that, and make it 11% less. So what we have is a Federation with 2 zones one of which would be 93% of the territory and have a majority of GCS and the other one made of the 7% of the territory and have a majority of TCs. These 2 states will be just administrative regions and they will be under a strong, central, democratically elected by Cypriots as a whole, government modeled after other federations, like for example the Russian Federation. No Settlers and no Turkish troops will be allowed to stay.

What I describe above is definitely a BBF solution and it will be definitely accepted by the Greek Cypriots. It will also definitely be rejected by the TCs. Would that mean that TCs reject BBF? No, it will mean that they reject this particular version of BBF, just like we would reject some other versions of BBF.

Therefore we will accept a BBF solution if it has content that suits us, and the TCs will accept a BBF solution if it has a content that suits them.

What you are asking from us is not to accept "BBF", because we already did. What you are asking from us is to accept a BBF the way the Turks want it to be, and we will definitely not accept that!

Maybe you should try to convince your TC friends to accept the BBF as we want it? Why don't you try that? If they are not "nationalist, rejectionist, fascists" they should have no problem to accept any kind of BBF, right?

[Viewpoint]

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Can you tell me what in the term "BBF" requires that settlers should stay in Cyprus??? Absolutely nothing. In fact we never agreed that any Settlers will stay in Cyprus, let alone have some universal agreement on this. The settler issue is just part of the give and take, and we might accept a certain number of Settlers to stay if the TCs also accept several other things that would make a solution acceptable to us.

Also a solution based on "BBF" does not preclude all refugees from returning to their homes. All that "BBF" says is that we will have a Federation with 2 states (Bi-zonal) and with each state having as a majority one of the communities (Bi-Communal). If the "TC State" is small enough and encompasses mostly areas where the TCs have been the majority before 74 + some government land, then all refugees can return to their homes and we will still have a BBF as a result.

"BBF" is a term that means very little. It just means "bicommunal bizonal federation" as I described it above, and nothing more.

Here is a BBF that most Cypriots would agree to:

The Turks demand 29%+ of land for their 18% minority. That is 11% more than their population ratio. So lets reverse that, and make it 11% less. So what we have is a Federation with 2 zones one of which would be 93% of the territory and have a majority of GCS and the other one made of the 7% of the territory and have a majority of TCs. These 2 states will be just administrative regions and they will be under a strong, central, democratically elected by Cypriots as a whole, government modeled after other federations, like for example the Russian Federation. No Settlers and no Turkish troops will be allowed to stay.

What I describe above is definitely a BBF solution and it will be definitely accepted by the Greek Cypriots. It will also definitely be rejected by the TCs. Would that mean that TCs reject BBF? No, it will mean that they reject this particular version of BBF, just like we would reject some other versions of BBF.

Therefore we will accept a BBF solution if it has content that suits us, and the TCs will accept a BBF solution if it has a content that suits them.

What you are asking from us is not to accept "BBF", because we already did. What you are asking from us is to accept a BBF the way the Turks want it to be, and we will definitely not accept that!

Maybe you should try to convince your TC friends to accept the BBF as we want it? Why don't you try that? If they are not "nationalist, rejectionist, fascists" they should have no problem to accept any kind of BBF, right?

Great attempt at reverse phsycology but the bottom line is some red lines are their because of the other sides mistakes and the threat they impose on a solution...the AP is a blueprint of what is necessary to keep GCs in check, have you ever thought of it from that angle? of course not your are a GC.

[Gregory]

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Can you tell me what in the term "BBF" requires that settlers should stay in Cyprus??? Absolutely nothing. In fact we never agreed that any Settlers will stay in Cyprus, let alone have some universal agreement on this. The settler issue is just part of the give and take, and we might accept a certain number of Settlers to stay if the TCs also accept several other things that would make a solution acceptable to us.

Also a solution based on "BBF" does not preclude all refugees from returning to their homes. All that "BBF" says is that we will have a Federation with 2 states (Bi-zonal) and with each state having as a majority one of the communities (Bi-Communal). If the "TC State" is small enough and encompasses mostly areas where the TCs have been the majority before 74 + some government land, then all refugees can return to their homes and we will still have a BBF as a result.

"BBF" is a term that means very little. It just means "bicommunal bizonal federation" as I described it above, and nothing more.

Here is a BBF that most Cypriots would agree to:

The Turks demand 29%+ of land for their 18% minority. That is 11% more than their population ratio. So lets reverse that, and make it 11% less. So what we have is a Federation with 2 zones one of which would be 93% of the territory and have a majority of GCS and the other one made of the 7% of the territory and have a majority of TCs. These 2 states will be just administrative regions and they will be under a strong, central, democratically elected by Cypriots as a whole, government modeled after other federations, like for example the Russian Federation. No Settlers and no Turkish troops will be allowed to stay.

What I describe above is definitely a BBF solution and it will be definitely accepted by the Greek Cypriots. It will also definitely be rejected by the TCs. Would that mean that TCs reject BBF? No, it will mean that they reject this particular version of BBF, just like we would reject some other versions of BBF.

Therefore we will accept a BBF solution if it has content that suits us, and the TCs will accept a BBF solution if it has a content that suits them.

What you are asking from us is not to accept "BBF", because we already did. What you are asking from us is to accept a BBF the way the Turks want it to be, and we will definitely not accept that!

Maybe you should try to convince your TC friends to accept the BBF as we want it? Why don't you try that? If they are not "nationalist, rejectionist, fascists" they should have no problem to accept any kind of BBF, right?

Great attempt at reverse phsycology but the bottom line is some red lines are their because of the other sides mistakes and the threat they impose on a solution...the AP is a blueprint of what is necessary to keep GCs in check, have you ever thought of it from that angle? of course not your are a GC.

How is Turkey kept in check?

Or is that not a requirement Viewpoint?

[Oracle]

... the AP is a blueprint of what is necessary to keep GCs in check...

So, you admit we would have been signing a life-time prison sentence for our whole ethnic group and for every generation of ours to come!

[Piratis]

Can you tell me how we can get rid of all settlers and how all the refugees will return to their homes, when all parties in Cyprus have agreed that the solution we are after is bicommunal, bizonal federation?

Can you tell me what in the term "BBF" requires that settlers should stay in Cyprus??? Absolutely nothing. In fact we never agreed that any Settlers will stay in Cyprus, let alone have some universal agreement on this. The settler issue is just part of the give and take, and we might accept a certain number of Settlers to stay if the TCs also accept several other things that would make a solution acceptable to us.

Also a solution based on "BBF" does not preclude all refugees from returning to their homes. All that "BBF" says is that we will have a Federation with 2 states (Bi-zonal) and with each state having as a majority one of the communities (Bi-Communal). If the "TC State" is small enough and encompasses mostly areas where the TCs have been the majority before 74 + some government land, then all refugees can return to their homes and we will still have a BBF as a result.

"BBF" is a term that means very little. It just means "bicommunal bizonal federation" as I described it above, and nothing more.

Here is a BBF that most Cypriots would agree to:

The Turks demand 29%+ of land for their 18% minority. That is 11% more than their population ratio. So lets reverse that, and make it 11% less. So what we have is a Federation with 2 zones one of which would be 93% of the territory and have a majority of GCS and the other one made of the 7% of the territory and have a majority of TCs. These 2 states will be just administrative regions and they will be under a strong, central, democratically elected by Cypriots as a whole, government modeled after other federations, like for example the Russian Federation. No Settlers and no Turkish troops will be allowed to stay.

What I describe above is definitely a BBF solution and it will be definitely accepted by the Greek Cypriots. It will also definitely be rejected by the TCs. Would that mean that TCs reject BBF? No, it will mean that they reject this particular version of BBF, just like we would reject some other versions of BBF.

Therefore we will accept a BBF solution if it has content that suits us, and the TCs will accept a BBF solution if it has a content that suits them.

What you are asking from us is not to accept "BBF", because we already did. What you are asking from us is to accept a BBF the way the Turks want it to be, and we will definitely not accept that!

Maybe you should try to convince your TC friends to accept the BBF as we want it? Why don't you try that? If they are not "nationalist, rejectionist, fascists" they should have no problem to accept any kind of BBF, right?

Great attempt at reverse phsycology but the bottom line is some red lines are their because of the other sides mistakes and the threat they impose on a solution...the AP is a blueprint of what is necessary to keep GCs in check, have you ever thought of it from that angle? of course not your are a GC.

Viewpoint, I will not repeat the tons of facts that show that it is the Turks who are the aggressors in Cyprus, the ones who started all conflicts and wars in Cyprus, and the ones who from the day they set their foot on our island until today keep violating the human rights of the Cypriot people. We discussed these things many times in the past.

In fact a "BBF" (even the best one, as we accept it) is a compromise from our side because your side refused to obey the UN Resolution of 20th of July of 1974 which demanded the withdrawal of all foreign troops and the respect of the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus.

If you had any right for a "BBF" based on our actions, then why was there no resolution about such thing before 1974? Neither the intercommunal conflict (which you started) nor the coup (several coops happened in Turkey as well) was an excuse for any "BBF" otherwise this would have been said in some of the resolutions before 1974. So don't claim that "BBF" is due to our actions, since it is in fact a compromise we made due to your illegal actions.

Therefore "BBF" is not something you have the right for, but a compromise we made seeing that you were not willing to respect the UN resolutions. Our agreement for "BBF" was a result of you keeping 1/3rd of our country as a hostage and blackmailing us with this.

You are obligated to obey the resolutions demanding the withdrawal of your troops from Cyprus and declaring the illegality of the "trnc". Nobody asked you if it was OK to issue such resolutions. You broke international law, and that is why those resolutions were issued against you.

On the other hand we were never obligated to accept any kind of "BBF". Makarios accepted the "BBF" proposal, but he didn't have to. In the same way Annan plan was just a proposal that we didn't have to accept it (and we didn't).

Therefore it is only us who can say how much of a compromise we are willing to make. Nobody obligates us to make any more compromises than we have already agreed for. It is only us who can say what the acceptable parameters of "BBF" can be, and nobody has the right to obligate us to accept anything beyond that.

But you remain obligated by UN resolutions that demand the withdrawal of your troops from Cyprus, the respect of the sovereignty of RoC, and declare the illegality of the "trnc". This is why you will continue to suffer the consequences of your illegal actions until either (1) Accept legality as it exists today or (2) Accept our proposals for a BBF with a content that is acceptable to us.

[B25]

Ahmen Piratis, kala n'eisai.

Wait for the bollocks to come back with some lame poppycock excuses.

Like Enosis, makarios, Embargoes blah blah blah. Typical!

[zan]

Ahmen Piratis, kala n'eisai.

Wait for the bollocks to come back with some lame poppycock excuses.

Like Enosis, makarios, Embargoes blah blah blah. Typical!

Of course if you leave the FACTS out then Piratis is right......I can see that now