Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

4 the people who still dont get it!



Is KKTC a pseudostate Definitely not.

The rights of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) as an independent sovereign state are well defined in Articles 3 and 4 of the Montevideo Convention. Articles 3 and 4 of this convention, dated 1933, are exactly as below:

Article 3:

The political existence of a state is independent of recognition by other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts. The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to International Law.

Article 4:

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
When and where was this Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States held and who signed it?

It was signed in Montevideo, Uruguay, on December 26, 1933 and entered into force on December 26, 1934. Article 8 was reaffirmed by an additional protocol on December 23, 1936.

Bolivia alone amongst the states represented at the Seventh International Conference of American States did not sign the convention. The US, Peru and Brazil ratified the convention with reservations directly attached to the document.

After Turkish Cypriots declared the KKTC --an independent state in the northern territories of Cyprus-- on November 15, 1983, UN Secretary-General Javier Pérez de Cuéllar immediately called the UN Security Council for an urgent and special meeting.

Having heard the statement of the foreign minister of the Greek Cypriot administration, the UN Security Council, at its 2,500th meeting, adopted the infamous resolution filed as UN Resolution 541 (1983) on November 18, 1983.
International law is above any organization such as the UN and the EU. Neither of these organizations has the right to determine the legitimacy of an independent sovereign state. International law defines and sets out the factual existence of states and is able to determine the legal and legitimate rights of states and their relations with each other.

The EU and its member state, The (Greek) Republic of Cyprus cannot claim jurisdiction over the territories of the independent sovereign KKTC state. Therefore the South can never be the legal and legitimate ruler of the whole of Cyprus as stated in the Green Line Regulation, direct trade regulation and financial aid regulation of the EU.

Is the KKTC a pseudo state?

No, it is a real state and it exists.

The UN resolutions like 541 or 550 and EU regulations mentioning the (Greek) Republic of Cyprus as the legal and legitimate ruler of the whole of Cyprus, will only contribute to the delaying of the solution of the Cyprus problem.

International laws of recognition may serve a purpose by providing a framework for a solution to the Cyprus problem. International law says that to overcome the Cyprus problem, a comprehensive formula crafted to meet the unique conditions on the island must be found.

Each party to the dialogue must recognize the legitimacy of the other. Without such reciprocity, productive negotiations will not take place. Immediately prior to a solution each government must extend recognition to its negotiating partner. The advantage of reciprocal recognition followed by a solution is the resolution of the myriad legal problems that would arise if the lawfulness of the statutes or treaties of one of the governments was subsequently called into question.

Prior recognition as a pre-condition before a permanent solution resolves the issue and enhances the chances of success. The doctrine of recognition becomes a means of restoring good relations between the two states of the island of Cyprus.




Hi Zan, hope u r keeping well my dear friend

I'm fine my friend...Hope all is well with you..


I hear they do a nice line in shoes and jeans in the TRNC......You know..The state that doesn't exist......There must be many "Emperors" in the South that think they are walking around naked as the day they were born but are really wearing our robes.....

[Piratis]

Usual bollocks from the Bananiot Charalambous.

36% of our land, 60% of our resources and about as much of our coastline are under illegal occupation and this person claims that Greek Cypriots "support partition" and that such thing serves our "personal interests"?

I have a challenge for Charalambous and his Turkish supporters:

If you believe that Greek Cypriots support partition then lets have a referendum with 2 options:

Option 1: Partition
Option 2: A truly united Cyprus with a democratic one person one vote system as it exists in all other normal countries in the world. No foreign troops, no illegal Settlers, no division lines, no segregation, no racist discrimination and no human rights violations.

If you truly believe that Greek Cypriots want partition then you don't have to worry about Option 2. GCs would, according to your bollocks logic, choose partition. Right?

So, would you take this challenge? I bet you will not.

Because the truth is that what Greek Cypriots want is not partition but a true unification.

This is why Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan partition plan (and why TCs accepted it). Because it would legalize the partition of our island.

What we have now is only a de facto partition. Republic of Cyprus is the one and only recognized state and on the other side we have an illegal occupation. With Annan plan what we would have would be a de jure partition, with the north part of Cyprus recognized as being "Turkish".

Not only that but Turkey, with their small minority, would be able to control the whole island. We would not be able to democratically take any decision for our country without the aproval of Turkey. Today 1/3rd of our country is hostage of Turkey, with Annan plan the whole Cyprus would be a hostage of Turkey.

Then there is also the issue of the properties. Today Turkey is responsible for our human rights violations and the Turks are not only obligated to give our land back to our refugees, but they are also obligated to compensate our refugees for the 35 years of illegally using their properties. With the Annan partition plan not only the north part of Cyprus would be officially Turkified, but Turkey would not have to pay even a single cent for compensation.

These are just a few of the reasons that make the Annan partition plan worst than the de facto partition we have today.

So if the Cypriot people are given the option to choose between partition and a true unification, the Cypriot people would choose unification without any doubt. (Those Bananiots that doubt this should take the challenge I posted above)

But if a true unification is not an option and the Cypriot people are asked to choose between the continuation of the status quo and a de jure partition of the Annan plan then obviously they would choose the first option, and this is what they did and this is what they will do again given the same 2 options.

[zan]

Usual bollocks from the Bananiot Charalambous.

36% of our land, 60% of our resources and about as much of our coastline are under illegal occupation and this person claims that Greek Cypriots "support partition" and that such thing serves our "personal interests"?

I have a challenge for Charalambous and his Turkish supporters:

If you believe that Greek Cypriots support partition then lets have a referendum with 2 options:

Option 1: Partition
Option 2: A truly united Cyprus with a democratic one person one vote system as it exists in all other normal countries in the world. No foreign troops, no illegal Settlers, no division lines, no segregation, no racist discrimination and no human rights violations.

If you truly believe that Greek Cypriots want partition then you don't have to worry about Option 2. GCs would, according to your bollocks logic, choose partition. Right?

So, would you take this challenge? I bet you will not.

Because the truth is that what Greek Cypriots want is not partition but a true unification.

This is why Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan partition plan (and why TCs accepted it). Because it would legalize the partition of our island.

What we have now is only a de facto partition. Republic of Cyprus is the one and only recognized state and on the other side we have an illegal occupation. With Annan plan what we would have would be a de jure partition, with the north part of Cyprus recognized as being "Turkish".

Not only that but Turkey, with their small minority, would be able to control the whole island. We would not be able to democratically take any decision for our country without the aproval of Turkey. Today 1/3rd of our country is hostage of Turkey, with Annan plan the whole Cyprus would be a hostage of Turkey.

Then there is also the issue of the properties. Today Turkey is responsible for our human rights violations and the Turks are not only obligated to give our land back to our refugees, but they are also obligated to compensate our refugees for the 35 years of illegally using their properties. With the Annan partition plan not only the north part of Cyprus would be officially Turkified, but Turkey would not have to pay even a single cent for compensation.

These are just a few of the reasons that make the Annan partition plan worst than the de facto partition we have today.

So if the Cypriot people are given the option to choose between partition and a true unification, the Cypriot people would choose unification without any doubt. (Those Bananiots that doubt this should take the challenge I posted above)

But if a true unification is not an option and the Cypriot people are asked to choose between the continuation of the status quo and a de jure partition of the Annan plan then obviously they would choose the first option, and this is what they did and this is what they will do again given the same 2 options.

Well done Piratis.......You are the first person to work out that you are not given the option of voting for partition.......What old Charlie is saying is that you should be.......

[Piratis]

Usual bollocks from the Bananiot Charalambous.

36% of our land, 60% of our resources and about as much of our coastline are under illegal occupation and this person claims that Greek Cypriots "support partition" and that such thing serves our "personal interests"?

I have a challenge for Charalambous and his Turkish supporters:

If you believe that Greek Cypriots support partition then lets have a referendum with 2 options:

Option 1: Partition
Option 2: A truly united Cyprus with a democratic one person one vote system as it exists in all other normal countries in the world. No foreign troops, no illegal Settlers, no division lines, no segregation, no racist discrimination and no human rights violations.

If you truly believe that Greek Cypriots want partition then you don't have to worry about Option 2. GCs would, according to your bollocks logic, choose partition. Right?

So, would you take this challenge? I bet you will not.

Because the truth is that what Greek Cypriots want is not partition but a true unification.

This is why Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan partition plan (and why TCs accepted it). Because it would legalize the partition of our island.

What we have now is only a de facto partition. Republic of Cyprus is the one and only recognized state and on the other side we have an illegal occupation. With Annan plan what we would have would be a de jure partition, with the north part of Cyprus recognized as being "Turkish".

Not only that but Turkey, with their small minority, would be able to control the whole island. We would not be able to democratically take any decision for our country without the aproval of Turkey. Today 1/3rd of our country is hostage of Turkey, with Annan plan the whole Cyprus would be a hostage of Turkey.

Then there is also the issue of the properties. Today Turkey is responsible for our human rights violations and the Turks are not only obligated to give our land back to our refugees, but they are also obligated to compensate our refugees for the 35 years of illegally using their properties. With the Annan partition plan not only the north part of Cyprus would be officially Turkified, but Turkey would not have to pay even a single cent for compensation.

These are just a few of the reasons that make the Annan partition plan worst than the de facto partition we have today.

So if the Cypriot people are given the option to choose between partition and a true unification, the Cypriot people would choose unification without any doubt. (Those Bananiots that doubt this should take the challenge I posted above)

But if a true unification is not an option and the Cypriot people are asked to choose between the continuation of the status quo and a de jure partition of the Annan plan then obviously they would choose the first option, and this is what they did and this is what they will do again given the same 2 options.

Well done Piratis.......You are the first person to work out that you are not given the option of voting for partition.......What old Charlie is saying is that you should be.......

Wrong Zan. What we are not given the option is to vote for a true unification.

But I have no problem to put both options in a referendum. Option 1 will be partition and option 2 unification as described above.

If Charalampous is right, then GCs will vote for partition. If you agree with him then you don't have to worry about option 2.

Do you agree for such referendum?

[zan]

Usual bollocks from the Bananiot Charalambous.

36% of our land, 60% of our resources and about as much of our coastline are under illegal occupation and this person claims that Greek Cypriots "support partition" and that such thing serves our "personal interests"?

I have a challenge for Charalambous and his Turkish supporters:

If you believe that Greek Cypriots support partition then lets have a referendum with 2 options:

Option 1: Partition
Option 2: A truly united Cyprus with a democratic one person one vote system as it exists in all other normal countries in the world. No foreign troops, no illegal Settlers, no division lines, no segregation, no racist discrimination and no human rights violations.

If you truly believe that Greek Cypriots want partition then you don't have to worry about Option 2. GCs would, according to your bollocks logic, choose partition. Right?

So, would you take this challenge? I bet you will not.

Because the truth is that what Greek Cypriots want is not partition but a true unification.

This is why Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan partition plan (and why TCs accepted it). Because it would legalize the partition of our island.

What we have now is only a de facto partition. Republic of Cyprus is the one and only recognized state and on the other side we have an illegal occupation. With Annan plan what we would have would be a de jure partition, with the north part of Cyprus recognized as being "Turkish".

Not only that but Turkey, with their small minority, would be able to control the whole island. We would not be able to democratically take any decision for our country without the aproval of Turkey. Today 1/3rd of our country is hostage of Turkey, with Annan plan the whole Cyprus would be a hostage of Turkey.

Then there is also the issue of the properties. Today Turkey is responsible for our human rights violations and the Turks are not only obligated to give our land back to our refugees, but they are also obligated to compensate our refugees for the 35 years of illegally using their properties. With the Annan partition plan not only the north part of Cyprus would be officially Turkified, but Turkey would not have to pay even a single cent for compensation.

These are just a few of the reasons that make the Annan partition plan worst than the de facto partition we have today.

So if the Cypriot people are given the option to choose between partition and a true unification, the Cypriot people would choose unification without any doubt. (Those Bananiots that doubt this should take the challenge I posted above)

But if a true unification is not an option and the Cypriot people are asked to choose between the continuation of the status quo and a de jure partition of the Annan plan then obviously they would choose the first option, and this is what they did and this is what they will do again given the same 2 options.

Well done Piratis.......You are the first person to work out that you are not given the option of voting for partition.......What old Charlie is saying is that you should be.......

Wrong Zan. What we are not given the option is to vote for a true unification.

But I have no problem to put both options in a referendum. Option 1 will be partition and option 2 unification as described above.

If Charalampous is right, then GCs will vote for partition. If you agree with him then you don't have to worry about option 2.

Do you agree for such referendum?

You can have all the referendums you want....It's between you and Charlie!!!!

[Bananiot]

Your challenge, Piratis, was taken up by your protege Tassos Papadopoulos, long before you even began to think about it. That was in Helsinki in 2005 when he spoke about partition being the next best option. Of course, Papadopoulos was referring to your second option which wily Papadopoulos knew that it was no go.

However, anyone who thinks that our options are just the two you so pompously declared, will eventually succumb to the idea that partition is the second best solution, just like Papadopoulos, unless you provide the methos by which the second option will be attained.

Hung on, I think I am not being just with you Piratis, my apologies. You did offer solution on several occasions. We should wait for the balance of power to change, you said.

[Jerry]

The north is bankrupt, its economy is not and never will be viable without subsidy from the mainland or economic intergration with the ROC Even the carpetbaggers are getting fed up, they have started North Cyprus Free Press because freedom of expression about how bad things are in the north are frowned on.

"North Cyprus Free Press is a newspaper set up to allow free expression for north Cyprus residents and other well-wishers."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/200 ... scientist/

[bill cobbett]

The north is bankrupt, its economy is not and never will be viable without subsidy from the mainland or economic intergration with the ROC Even the carpetbaggers are getting fed up, they have started North Cyprus Free Press because freedom of expression about how bad things are in the north are frowned on.

"North Cyprus Free Press is a newspaper set up to allow free expression for north Cyprus residents and other well-wishers."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/200 ... scientist/

Not terribly Free this nC"F"P, as our Beloved Milti is finding out.

[zan]

The north is bankrupt, its economy is not and never will be viable without subsidy from the mainland or economic intergration with the ROC Even the carpetbaggers are getting fed up, they have started North Cyprus Free Press because freedom of expression about how bad things are in the north are frowned on.

"North Cyprus Free Press is a newspaper set up to allow free expression for north Cyprus residents and other well-wishers."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/200 ... scientist/

Yet you chose to ignore your own "free press" and ridicule them....Funny that!!!

[Jerry]

The north is bankrupt, its economy is not and never will be viable without subsidy from the mainland or economic intergration with the ROC Even the carpetbaggers are getting fed up, they have started North Cyprus Free Press because freedom of expression about how bad things are in the north are frowned on.

"North Cyprus Free Press is a newspaper set up to allow free expression for north Cyprus residents and other well-wishers."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/200 ... scientist/

Yet you chose to ignore your own "free press" and ridicule them....Funny that!!!

Explain Examples