Cyprus-Forum.com

[runaway]

It is often said that the continent ends at the Ural Mountains, and also at the Bosphorous.

End of the story. Istanbul is Europe and Limasol is not.

[B25]

It is often said that the continent ends at the Ural Mountains, and also at the Bosphorous.

End of the story. Istanbul is Europe and Limasol is not.

You can quote it all you like, dress it up and whatever, bottom line is

Cyprus is in, Turkey is NOT. Suck on that

[Tim Drayton]

It is often said that the continent ends at the Ural Mountains, and also at the Bosphorous.

End of the story. Istanbul is Europe and Limasol is not.

... including Kadıköy?

[Tim Drayton]

Membership of the European Union and being physically located in the continent of Europe are two unrelated matters, anyhow.

[Oracle]

It is often said that the continent ends at the Ural Mountains, and also at the Bosphorous.

End of the story. Istanbul is Europe and Limasol is not.

Yup ... it's Greek

[zan]

Membership of the European Union and being physically located in the continent of Europe are two unrelated matters, anyhow.

I don't think people realise that the LINES were drawn by MAN and can be ALTERED!!!

[Oracle]

Membership of the European Union and being physically located in the continent of Europe are two unrelated matters, anyhow.

I don't think people realise that the LINES were drawn by MAN and can be ALTERED!!!

Correct ...

Continents by Oral Tradition

... The rest of the continents -- Africa, Asia and Europe -- were most likely named by the sailors who frequented their ports on naval and merchant voyages, but no one knows for sure. Asia may have initially been named for the Trojan ruler Asios. The name "Asia" (in its Greek form) is found in writings dating back to 440 B.C.

Some believe the names "Europe" and "Asia" come from Phoenician sailors who designated between the two destinations by the movement of the sun. "Asia" may reflect the word "acu," for "sunrise" or "east." Europe, which lies to the west of Asia, may be drawn from the Phoenician word "ereb," which means "sunset" or "west." Others propose that Europe was named for the character Europa from Greek mythology, who has connections to both the sun and the moon and is best known for being abducted and raped by Zeus.

"Africa" may have its roots in the Afarak people, a Berber tribe in the northern part of the continent; it may also stem from the Greek "aprike," which means "free from cold," or the Latin "aprica," -- "sunny."

Regardless of their exact origins, the names most likely came from simple oral use; sailors had to call the places something, so they made something up. After a while, the names stuck, eventually showing up in writings and on maps.

The origins of the continents' names are not written in stone, and neither are the boundaries. Ultimately, borders between continents are nearly as politically determined as borders between nations. For instance, neither Europe nor Asia is by definition a continent; neither is completely surrounded by water. They're connected, with the boundary between the two running through both Turkey and Russia, defined by mountain ranges. They were likely designated separate continents for reasons linked to nationalism and racial, cultural and trade distinctions. Likewise, North and South America are connected.

For these reasons, in certain parts of the world, people recognize only five continents: The Americas, Africa, Eurasia, Antarctica and Australia. In other parts, there are six continents, and in yet other areas there are seven.

Geography, it seems, can be a very political discipline.

by Julia Layton

geography.howstuffworks.

[runaway]

Membership of the European Union and being physically located in the continent of Europe are two unrelated matters, anyhow.

First time I agree with you. And EU proved us that countries outside of Europe can be admitted for full membership as well. Christians of Lebanon and Egypt should apply as well. They are as eligible as south cypriots!

[Kikapu]

Your understanding of the situation needs to be further refined because it is not correct. EU wants Turkey to be close but not too close. They can get her to do all the dirty work without really suffering the consequences. This reminds me of the Cinderella story with the RoC and Greece being the two ugly sisters using their mother to make Cinderella do all the work and them just laze about and have a free ride. It just goes to show that we can learn a lot from children’s stories.

Sure, the EU wants Turkey firmly in the Western camp as it definitely doesn’t want a rogue state on its border. That’s why they’re offering Privileged Partnership instead of EU membership. And I don’t quite understand what you meant by the EU wanting Turkey to do all the dirty work. Is this a reference to providing Europe with all those cheap manufactured goods? As long as you keep your minimum wage at €200 per month, then there will be demand for them. If prices begin to rise then there’s always China to do the dirty work for EU households.

Re Turkey and the EU there are a lot of cons associated with a country of 75 million mainly poor Muslims wanting to become a member. The most notable is the Christian club mentality of the EU, even amongst the atheists. But there’s also your intrusive military. The consensus in Europe is army generals are there to take orders from civilians and not give them. With such a large population, Turkey will have more seats than Germany in the Euro parliament, which will mean you having a huge political voice in deciding the future of Europe. Nobody wants that (pls refer to modern comparisons to the Siege of Vienna). There’s also the likelihood of an influx of millions of Turkish peasants from the slums of Istanbul and Ankara looking for a better life in the slums of Berlin and Paris. And of course there are the usual concerns of human rights, censorship, etc.

What's the pros for Europe with Turkey becoming a EU member. Not much if you really look at it. That’s why the EU prefers Turkey to have privileged partnership. And besides, it's not only the more realistic option but the one that will be better for a Turkey that simply doesn’t want to adapt to change. Because with privileged partnership you can have your Article 301, Mountain Turks, non-Ecumenical Patriarch and pariah “TRNC” puppet-state. With EU membership you can’t.

So why are so many of your fellow countrymen still insisting on it? The “privilege” of finally becoming “Europeans”, right? But are you willing to make the necessary sacrifices to become “Europeans”. You’re not. Prior to Dec 2004 you thought you could bully yourself into the EU on your own terms. “Europe needs Turkey” is what you believed. And you’re still clinging with your Middle-Eastern mindset of “we’ve done more than enough, so let us in or you’ll suffer the consequences”. But there are really no consequences for Europe.

The bottom line is to become a member of the Club you will need to fulfil all the criteria and chapters, which includes recognising all the member states, especially Cyprus. There is no way around it. So get over your paranoia these are conditions placed on Turkey and no one else. It applies to all candidates. But the best part is the EU is banking on your refusal to fulfil its criteria. This will mean any failure to become a member will be your fault. Pretty clever strategy.

And perhaps one of the best diplomatic moves by Greece in a very long time was to lift the veto on Turkey's EU candidacy. We've made the occupation of the northern Cyprus a diplomatic and judicial headache for Turkey.

Re the fairytale comparison, I’m sure you idealistic view is Turkey is indeed Cinderella, but you really don’t have a Prince Charming searching for you with a glass slipper and therefore there can be no “happily ever after”. But since we’re making comparisons with fairytales then the most appropriate one would be the Three Little Pigs. That would make Turkey the Big Bad Wolf, who will huff and puff until he blooows the house down if doesn’t get what he wants. Sure, when the house is made out of straw and wood, damage can be made. But when the house is made out of bricks, as most are today, then your blowing hot wind is ineffective. And the EU is definitely made out of bricks and you'll be running out of breathe sooner than later.

Nicely written post, Baraouti.!

Just one thing on your below comment. If I'm not mistaken, the RoC also needs to give it's consent in order for the EU to accept Turkey as a "Privileged Partner". The RoC's veto power holds true over Turkey's EU membership as well as for Privileged membership, therefore for Turkey, there may not be any escaping in recognising the RoC after all Turkey’s attempts fail to delay this inevitable eventuality. The only thing that can save Turkey from all this is of course, if there were a settlement on the island which the RoC also controls their part of the settlement which Turkey cannot do anything about. The ball is in Turkey’s corner to decide really. Is it going to be Europe for them, or Asia. There will not be any middle point for them as long as the situation in Cyprus remains as is.!

Because with privileged partnership you can have your Article 301, Mountain Turks, non-Ecumenical Patriarch and
pariah “TRNC” puppet-state. With EU membership you can’t.

[zan]

Your understanding of the situation needs to be further refined because it is not correct. EU wants Turkey to be close but not too close. They can get her to do all the dirty work without really suffering the consequences. This reminds me of the Cinderella story with the RoC and Greece being the two ugly sisters using their mother to make Cinderella do all the work and them just laze about and have a free ride. It just goes to show that we can learn a lot from children’s stories.

Sure, the EU wants Turkey firmly in the Western camp as it definitely doesn’t want a rogue state on its border. That’s why they’re offering Privileged Partnership instead of EU membership. And I don’t quite understand what you meant by the EU wanting Turkey to do all the dirty work. Is this a reference to providing Europe with all those cheap manufactured goods? As long as you keep your minimum wage at €200 per month, then there will be demand for them. If prices begin to rise then there’s always China to do the dirty work for EU households.

Re Turkey and the EU there are a lot of cons associated with a country of 75 million mainly poor Muslims wanting to become a member. The most notable is the Christian club mentality of the EU, even amongst the atheists. But there’s also your intrusive military. The consensus in Europe is army generals are there to take orders from civilians and not give them. With such a large population, Turkey will have more seats than Germany in the Euro parliament, which will mean you having a huge political voice in deciding the future of Europe. Nobody wants that (pls refer to modern comparisons to the Siege of Vienna). There’s also the likelihood of an influx of millions of Turkish peasants from the slums of Istanbul and Ankara looking for a better life in the slums of Berlin and Paris. And of course there are the usual concerns of human rights, censorship, etc.

What's the pros for Europe with Turkey becoming a EU member. Not much if you really look at it. That’s why the EU prefers Turkey to have privileged partnership. And besides, it's not only the more realistic option but the one that will be better for a Turkey that simply doesn’t want to adapt to change. Because with privileged partnership you can have your Article 301, Mountain Turks, non-Ecumenical Patriarch and pariah “TRNC” puppet-state. With EU membership you can’t.

So why are so many of your fellow countrymen still insisting on it? The “privilege” of finally becoming “Europeans”, right? But are you willing to make the necessary sacrifices to become “Europeans”. You’re not. Prior to Dec 2004 you thought you could bully yourself into the EU on your own terms. “Europe needs Turkey” is what you believed. And you’re still clinging with your Middle-Eastern mindset of “we’ve done more than enough, so let us in or you’ll suffer the consequences”. But there are really no consequences for Europe.

The bottom line is to become a member of the Club you will need to fulfil all the criteria and chapters, which includes recognising all the member states, especially Cyprus. There is no way around it. So get over your paranoia these are conditions placed on Turkey and no one else. It applies to all candidates. But the best part is the EU is banking on your refusal to fulfil its criteria. This will mean any failure to become a member will be your fault. Pretty clever strategy.

And perhaps one of the best diplomatic moves by Greece in a very long time was to lift the veto on Turkey's EU candidacy. We've made the occupation of the northern Cyprus a diplomatic and judicial headache for Turkey.

Re the fairytale comparison, I’m sure you idealistic view is Turkey is indeed Cinderella, but you really don’t have a Prince Charming searching for you with a glass slipper and therefore there can be no “happily ever after”. But since we’re making comparisons with fairytales then the most appropriate one would be the Three Little Pigs. That would make Turkey the Big Bad Wolf, who will huff and puff until he blooows the house down if doesn’t get what he wants. Sure, when the house is made out of straw and wood, damage can be made. But when the house is made out of bricks, as most are today, then your blowing hot wind is ineffective. And the EU is definitely made out of bricks and you'll be running out of breathe sooner than later.

Nicely written post, Baraouti.!

Just one thing on your below comment. If I'm not mistaken, the RoC also needs to give it's consent in order for the EU to accept Turkey as a "Privileged Partner". The RoC's veto power holds true over Turkey's EU membership as well as for Privileged membership, therefore for Turkey, there may not be any escaping in recognising the RoC after all Turkey’s attempts fail to delay this inevitable eventuality. The only thing that can save Turkey from all this is of course, if there were a settlement on the island which the RoC also controls their part of the settlement which Turkey cannot do anything about. The ball is in Turkey’s corner to decide really. Is it going to be Europe for them, or Asia. There will not be any middle point for them as long as the situation in Cyprus remains as is.!

Because with privileged partnership you can have your Article 301, Mountain Turks, non-Ecumenical Patriarch and
pariah “TRNC” puppet-state. With EU membership you can’t.

Are they not two separate issues that have to be sorted out Kiks......Article 301 can be sorted out long before any other points.....I predict the recognition of the "RoC" will be the last issue.....