Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Why 20%? land mass has never been determined according to personal land ownership. If we have 30% stake in the "RoC" then we have 30% rights to land who owns the land within that 30% is a totally different matter.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

George, I don't agree with the settlers staying and I don't agree with the troops staying for 10 years. Don't you dare speak on my behalf. You cannot just legalise the illegal criminal acts over a passage of time. This is Turkeys game and unfortunately she has soft people like you playing along with her actions.

Settlers came illegally, they have to go. In the UK the deport illegal immigrants whether they have family there or not, they are ILLEGAL and thats thats that.

Troops to stay! What? Are you F mad, it is because of them we have this shit now, no way, if the TCs want to intergrate in a normal society then they don't need those troops. With troops on the ground Turkey would be open to do to the GCs what she did in '74 all over again, she cannot be trusted on anything, infact I wouldn't even trust any signed solution she may sign today.

Who are you to give away 20% of our country to invaders and be happy with it as a compromise, we are giving away nothing, the country is one, they can live in it with us or can go back to mongolia, they were never invited here, they came by force and killed, murdered and raped tens of thousands of your fellow country men and women and don't you forget that.

So when you want to speak about giving the country away give them your arse, not mine! Katalaves!

Then my freind we will continue to live in partition. By the way who is giving away 20% of the country that is the proportion TC's owned before he war so why are athey not entitled to 20%. We are going to be a united country the difference is 20% of the country will be administered by TC's and 80% by GC's.

As for Turkey being allowed to stay for 10 years. I'm not suggesting they keep 40,000 troops here. If you had read my post at the start of my conversation with VP I stated 1000 troops no more no less.

You are what I call a Malaka. We have listened to people like yyou since 74 where has it got us. No where Turkey is still here the settlers continue to arrive and nothing is done. The Island belongs to all Cypriots wether you like it or not so no compromise no solution what cant you understand.

We have so many fu@ing idiots on both sides. How can we build trust when we wont give it a chance.

And you my dear friend is what I would call a cock sucker, go give the country to your mates, the idiots are those that have defeatists attitudes like you who wnat to 'Compromise' yeah right! We compromise the country and they shit all over us.

Bravo sou malaka of the 10th degree na pas na gamithis.

Se where has your attitude got us no where. You know fully well that turkey will not just hand Cyprus back to us no matter what the world says and does. Another 20 years their will more settlers in the north than GC's in the south. If we let it get to that point we will never get anything back will that make you happy.

Again why am I handing my country to the turks as I said they had 20% of the land before 74 so why are they not entitled to 20%. So I tell you what why dont go and suck sampsons cock because it is because of people like you that we are in the situation now. Sucking Greeces cock wanting enosis. No thanks I wanted Cyprus for the Cypriots.

Malak akouse me, I will give you an akin to what you are asking of the GC nation.

I will come you your house, shoot your son, fuck your wife and daugther take over the house and then, oh yes I will compromise and let you rent one of the rooms back. Thats what you are offering.

Well koumbare, I already told you what to do, if you like the Turkish cock that much you only have to go north.

The TCs own 20% of the land mass, this does not give them 37% of the island and 50% power sharing does, you moron.
They will accept nothing less and the more of the likes of you to kiss their arses the harder it will be for the GCs to get their country back.

Now you tell me, if you accept to happen to you what I said above I will go along with whatever you want.

Tourkospore.

If they dont accept 20% then no agreement. I'm not selling out. I hate Turkey as much as you but if we dont agree to BBF then nothing will happen.

Now with regards to your comments they are bang out of order. I never insulted your family why be so personal.

[repulsewarrior]

No dead end mate. You will have no choice in the end but to compromise. You cant have it all your own way.

All our way? we dont expect that but we will not be forced into anything we do not want or will give the GCs the upper hand to do as they wish pushing us to one side.

There you go again VP with your brain washed mentality. All we want is fair solution where we dont have a Turkey that has a stranglehold on the island but you are too blind to see that.

What do you think we are going to do to you? Commit genocide? We are in the EU. Are they really going to allow a member state commit crimes against its own citizens. Come on VP wake up before its to late and the settlers steal Cyprus from you.

George why are you against measures that will not allow you to push us to one side? if you have no intention of doing so why are you so anti precautionary measures? These objections give us a clear indicition that you have hidden agendas to steam roll over us and take control of the whole island both physically and politically.

The settlers issue is a lost case for you Gc and your continous threat is like water off a ducks back we have accepted them as the new generation TCs, we arrived 450 years ago and the 35 years ago so peedling this in the hope of scaring us to capitulate is just not gonna happen. 500.000 and increasing in 30 years times with a populaiton of over 1 million you will be begging for division.

I am in favour of fair solution. Why do the settlers mean so much to you? I dont get it. I would'nt want a Cyprus full of Greeks from Greece. They are not the same as us Greek Cypriots. My best mate a TC has more in common with me that the Greeks from Greece. I want a Cyprus for Cypriots (Turkish, Greek, Maronite, Armenian) not people from Turkey or Greece.

If you were to reduce your state to 20% and get rid of the settlers that settled here after 2000. I would then be prepared to accept a soloution where Turkey would be permitted to keep her troop in Cyprus for 10 years after thate they leave and never come back.

It all about give and take mate. We GC's are prepared to compromise. Not all of us are fanatics.

How are you going to choose whose Human Rights you are going to "compromise"?

Either we regain a completely democratic solution or we behave like the Turks and remove the Human Rights of some members of the population.
It's unethical and impractical for long-term stability to "compromise" against a whole Cyprus under a fair and just democracy.

Oracle thats not going to happen you have to accept a compromised solution. Who knows maybe in 50 years we will have referenem in Cyprus where we vote on a new constitution where we go with the one person one vote system but right now their is no trust on either side. We have to accept a solution where some people will not be happy.

You cant be that naive to believe everything will go back to how it was. We are where we are because our parents generation behaved in such a terible way. I'm on about people from both sides of the divide (TMT EOKA)

I know both people can live together. In the UK many of my best friends are Turkish Cypriot. We are the same the only difference is our religion. We think the same and we have the same family values.

It going to take time in Cyprus to get where we are in the UK but we can get their but we must both make sacrifises along the way.

...ms o. i have suggested in my manifesto three votes one person, for this reason, so that at least, each citizens votes in exactly the same manner: for their Turkish Cypriot Representative and their Greek Cypriot Representative (as well as an Independant Representative for a lower house).

[B25]

George, I don't agree with the settlers staying and I don't agree with the troops staying for 10 years. Don't you dare speak on my behalf. You cannot just legalise the illegal criminal acts over a passage of time. This is Turkeys game and unfortunately she has soft people like you playing along with her actions.

Settlers came illegally, they have to go. In the UK the deport illegal immigrants whether they have family there or not, they are ILLEGAL and thats thats that.

Troops to stay! What? Are you F mad, it is because of them we have this shit now, no way, if the TCs want to intergrate in a normal society then they don't need those troops. With troops on the ground Turkey would be open to do to the GCs what she did in '74 all over again, she cannot be trusted on anything, infact I wouldn't even trust any signed solution she may sign today.

Who are you to give away 20% of our country to invaders and be happy with it as a compromise, we are giving away nothing, the country is one, they can live in it with us or can go back to mongolia, they were never invited here, they came by force and killed, murdered and raped tens of thousands of your fellow country men and women and don't you forget that.

So when you want to speak about giving the country away give them your arse, not mine! Katalaves!

Then my freind we will continue to live in partition. By the way who is giving away 20% of the country that is the proportion TC's owned before he war so why are athey not entitled to 20%. We are going to be a united country the difference is 20% of the country will be administered by TC's and 80% by GC's.

As for Turkey being allowed to stay for 10 years. I'm not suggesting they keep 40,000 troops here. If you had read my post at the start of my conversation with VP I stated 1000 troops no more no less.

You are what I call a Malaka. We have listened to people like yyou since 74 where has it got us. No where Turkey is still here the settlers continue to arrive and nothing is done. The Island belongs to all Cypriots wether you like it or not so no compromise no solution what cant you understand.

We have so many fu@ing idiots on both sides. How can we build trust when we wont give it a chance.

And you my dear friend is what I would call a cock sucker, go give the country to your mates, the idiots are those that have defeatists attitudes like you who wnat to 'Compromise' yeah right! We compromise the country and they shit all over us.

Bravo sou malaka of the 10th degree na pas na gamithis.

Se where has your attitude got us no where. You know fully well that turkey will not just hand Cyprus back to us no matter what the world says and does. Another 20 years their will more settlers in the north than GC's in the south. If we let it get to that point we will never get anything back will that make you happy.

Again why am I handing my country to the turks as I said they had 20% of the land before 74 so why are they not entitled to 20%. So I tell you what why dont go and suck sampsons cock because it is because of people like you that we are in the situation now. Sucking Greeces cock wanting enosis. No thanks I wanted Cyprus for the Cypriots.

Malak akouse me, I will give you an akin to what you are asking of the GC nation.

I will come you your house, shoot your son, fuck your wife and daugther take over the house and then, oh yes I will compromise and let you rent one of the rooms back. Thats what you are offering.

Well koumbare, I already told you what to do, if you like the Turkish cock that much you only have to go north.

The TCs own 20% of the land mass, this does not give them 37% of the island and 50% power sharing does, you moron.
They will accept nothing less and the more of the likes of you to kiss their arses the harder it will be for the GCs to get their country back.

Now you tell me, if you accept to happen to you what I said above I will go along with whatever you want.

Tourkospore.

If they dont accept 20% then no agreement. I'm not selling out. I hate Turkey as much as you but if we dont agree to BBF then nothing will happen.

Now with regards to your comments they are bang out of order. I never insulted your family why be so personal.

George, the comments were not directed to your family file. I was trying to make you understand what it was that you were saying by agreeing all these compromises.

I take them back, it was just an example you understand.

Not only have we been hard done by, they are expecting all the compromises from us.

Anyway, you comments earlier clarified your position, thanks and apologies.

[wyoming cowboy]

hypothetically speaking land owned by greek cyps cannot be negotiated by anyone away...if a greek cyp has a title its his thats the point

Hypothetically speaking, if the TRNC were a recognised state applying for EU membership it would accept certain principles and rules. Those exact same principles and rules are what it has to accept now, inorder to make the settlement workable in the EU and valid.

It is simple really, no complex mathematics needed.

[zan]

hypothetically speaking land owned by greek cyps cannot be negotiated by anyone away...if a greek cyp has a title its his thats the point

Hypothetically speaking, if the TRNC were a recognised state applying for EU membership it would accept certain principles and rules. Those exact same principles and rules are what it has to accept now, inorder to make the settlement workable in the EU and valid.

It is simple really, no complex mathematics needed.

Until he is given an offer he can't refuse!!!

[Byron]

Rumours from Brussels indicate that post December sparks will fly !

[Hermes]

Strong indications in the background that Turkey wants first to discuss security and guarantees

Guarantor of the Federation of the EU

The International Crisis Group proposes to launch a give and take between the review of the safety net and permit more settlers to the island

By Lefteris Adeilini

Willing to guarantee part of the solution of the Cyprus shows the European Union, which in the coming months plans to increase its presence in online discussions Christofias - Talat. Made in Brussels and studied seriously ideas the EU to guarantee the unity of the government of reunited Cyprus state. To make clear, namely that the European Council, and the Commission ensure the smooth functioning of the federation in Cyprus and its institutions. A move that range from the Community alleviate one of the main concerns of the G / C on the implementation of the solution. In the EU headquarters reactivate the group Komision on Cyprus, under the supervision of the Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso. And a key concern in session on October 20 was to set up co-ordinator will monitor closely the negotiations on the island, to ensure that the provisions of an agreement consistent with the acquis communautaire. The involvement of European actors in the debate over safety on the island, starting from the premise of all those involved behind the scenes to resolve the political problem can occur with "red lines" on security. Neither the elimination that is possible, nor their retention on the basis of the provisions of the Constitution of 1960. The entire review process aspect of security has taken a new momentum for a very simple but very important reason. In recent weeks, there are first strong evidence that Turkey wants to discuss security. At the diplomatic level indicates that the Erdogan government is ready to listen and give ideas for a kind review of the fold "thorn" of Cyprus, provided of course that will serve the basic needs. Publicly, neither side is able to make such assumptions, since for tactical reasons, such as Nicosia and Ankara insist respectively elimination or continuation of guarantees. Distinctive, but consultations are wide and long and rich background.

The EU's role
In view of the intensification of the Second Round of negotiations Christofias; Talat, with meetings twice a week in October, has stepped up a diplomatic level and the debate on how to shape the safety and security. Since the beginning of the current process of talks had discerned that this section would be this time of the most intractable. Various scenarios have been published from time to time (the "P" has dealt a series of articles on the subject), and special academic conference organized by Sweden in Brussels last April. The EU involvement in security of Cyprus was the challenge, particularly the involvement of European troops to the force would take to implement a solution to the island. But now for the first time expressed the idea to ensure that the Union government of a reunited Cyprus. Ensure that the operation of the federation and its institutions. In any case, the United Nations do not specialize in this area. Instead the EU has extensive experience. These guarantees are specifically political and military part of the implementation of the solution should be undertaken by the UN force, known as UNFICYP +, which will be developed on the island and possibly a European presence within its ranks. In the background are also discussed and ideas to include in the Treaty on Security and Guarantee provisions to protect the Turkish Cypriots from specific threats. Aim to eliminate both the concerns of the G / C for implementation and operation of the agreed common state, and the T / C as they consider necessary the presence of Turkish troops on the island.

Primary and Turkey
The idea of the EU to take the security of the federation is combined with another scenario is also considered. To put that guarantees the logic of give and take. And in this context, diplomats point out that given the opportunity for a give and take between the review of securities (G / C request) and to make certain provisions of the settlement primary EU law (T / C and Turkish request). As mentioned, the full engagement on the diplomatic background guarantees start from the very precise information is given that Turkey would continue to act as 'red line' safety and discuss new ideas and suggestions. In this light, it is noteworthy that the contribution made by the parties involved in the International Crisis Group, the famous think tank based in Brussels. In its latest report on Cyprus (30 September 2009), the International Crisis Group proposed a conference between the guarantor powers and the two sides in Cyprus to develop a new Security Treaty and implement the solution. Here, well, diplomatic sources point out, could include the EU as a guarantor of the federation. In addition, the International Crisis Group proposes to launch a give and take between the review of the safety net and permit more settlers to the island.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... ews.com%2F

[Nikitas]

"In addition, the International Crisis Group proposes to launch a give and take between the review of the safety net and permit more settlers to the island."

Now this is what we call a non sequitur. How do the settlers tie in with security guarantees for the TCs? Lefteris does not explain. From his syntax it sounds like the deal will be to permit more settlers to go to Cyprus, is that what the TCs want? Have they been asked? Any documentation wouild be welcome.

[Nikitas]

Just looked up the original text in Politis. The correct translation is "permit more settlers to remain on the island". So even ICG has realised that the settler issue is a serious problem in finding a solution. Ironic that these same guys, the ICG, were criticising the GC side last week for lack of realism, and now they are proposing pretty much the same things that Christofias proposed all along.