Cyprus-Forum.com

[GeorgeV97qaue]

George we TCs are preapred to compromise on the settlers issue but you cannot expect to ask people to go back to Turkey if they have lived here most of their lives...for arguements sake 2000 would be acceptable to me. But if there is no soluiton then I am not against them working and living here in the TRNC obtaining citizenship after a number of years. We cannotput everything on hold for a solution or that would be holding us to randsome, life goes on and we to need workers in all walks of life...there is easily a population of 500.000 in the TRNC today and this is necessary to keep the country functioning.

Why 20%

I would compromise even further on the troops issue as I know it is a concern for GCs and ask that the whole island be demilitirized but am unable to let of the guarantee as a just in case policy.

The safeguards and guarantees are not a one way street because we have plenty of fanatics on this side as well thats why I do not want to leave any open doors that can be used by either side to upset or derail a new start.

VP I stated 2000 because I agree some of the settlers have grown up and married TC. I have no problem with these settlers. But the stance of your Goverment is not helping a solution. I hope this is all a front and our leaders have been brave to actully have the balls todo what is needed.

I mentioned 20% because that's what the proportion was before the war. With regards to Guarantee's I cant accept a solution where Turkey permenetly have that over our nation.

I believe 10 years is fair by then we would have intergrated in the EU proper. The first Gerneration would then be just leaving school where Greek and Turkish will be taught. Do not listen to some of the GC's that state Greek must be the only language.

After 10 years our police forces would be intergrated and our national army would also be one where Greek and Turkish serve together. Numbers would be equal say 5000 Tc's and 5000 GC's No advantage to either side.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

No dead end mate. You will have no choice in the end but to compromise. You cant have it all your own way.

All our way? we dont expect that but we will not be forced into anything we do not want or will give the GCs the upper hand to do as they wish pushing us to one side.

There you go again VP with your brain washed mentality. All we want is fair solution where we dont have a Turkey that has a stranglehold on the island but you are too blind to see that.

What do you think we are going to do to you? Commit genocide? We are in the EU. Are they really going to allow a member state commit crimes against its own citizens. Come on VP wake up before its to late and the settlers steal Cyprus from you.

George why are you against measures that will not allow you to push us to one side? if you have no intention of doing so why are you so anti precautionary measures? These objections give us a clear indicition that you have hidden agendas to steam roll over us and take control of the whole island both physically and politically.

The settlers issue is a lost case for you Gc and your continous threat is like water off a ducks back we have accepted them as the new generation TCs, we arrived 450 years ago and the 35 years ago so peedling this in the hope of scaring us to capitulate is just not gonna happen. 500.000 and increasing in 30 years times with a populaiton of over 1 million you will be begging for division.

I am in favour of fair solution. Why do the settlers mean so much to you? I dont get it. I would'nt want a Cyprus full of Greeks from Greece. They are not the same as us Greek Cypriots. My best mate a TC has more in common with me that the Greeks from Greece. I want a Cyprus for Cypriots (Turkish, Greek, Maronite, Armenian) not people from Turkey or Greece.

If you were to reduce your state to 20% and get rid of the settlers that settled here after 2000. I would then be prepared to accept a soloution where Turkey would be permitted to keep her troop in Cyprus for 10 years after thate they leave and never come back.

It all about give and take mate. We GC's are prepared to compromise. Not all of us are fanatics.

How are you going to choose whose Human Rights you are going to "compromise"?

Either we regain a completely democratic solution or we behave like the Turks and remove the Human Rights of some members of the population.
It's unethical and impractical for long-term stability to "compromise" against a whole Cyprus under a fair and just democracy.

Oracle thats not going to happen you have to accept a compromised solution. Who knows maybe in 50 years we will have referenem in Cyprus where we vote on a new constitution where we go with the one person one vote system but right now their is no trust on either side. We have to accept a solution where some people will not be happy.

You cant be that naive to believe everything will go back to how it was. We are where we are because our parents generation behaved in such a terible way. I'm on about people from both sides of the divide (TMT EOKA)

I know both people can live together. In the UK many of my best friends are Turkish Cypriot. We are the same the only difference is our religion. We think the same and we have the same family values.

It going to take time in Cyprus to get where we are in the UK but we can get their but we must both make sacrifises along the way.

But you didn't say HOW you are going to choose whose Human Rights you are going to compromise?

And, how are you going to impose removing these Human rights from some citizens?

I'm afraid this "compromise" scheme is too similar to what the Turks have done and which we are trying to reverse i.e. called seeking a solution not a further "compromise of Human Rights"!

Why do you have to be so dramatic Oracle? It's people like you that make the TC's mistrust us so much. I am not a fall and I will not accept a solution that isnt fair to the GC's. I opposed the Annan plan because it wasnt fair.

I promise you I want what is fair. But do you really believe some people's Human rights will not be breached. These people must be compenstated by Turkey if a solution is reached. Not the people of Cyprus.

Some TC's human rights will be breached because many of them will not be able to return to their homes. You see we must compromise if we are to ever reach a solution. Why cant you see that?

Are you happy for things to stay the way they are? We could of had Famagusta back many years ago but because we sit here listening to people like you we have got nothing back. This is hurting both people even though neither likes to admit it.

[Oracle]

I'm not being dramatic (unfortunately trying to slightly stress some words with "bold" makes them too dark ... there are no in-between shades of grey! ).

Anyway, George, I just don't want to behave like the Turks and play god by picking and choosing which GCs have their Human Rights compromised by losing some of their beloved country. Cyprus has to REMAIN whole and not be given away piece by piece!

Sorry you don't feel the same way, but my idea is fair and just and therefore right.

BTW .... kalinihta.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

I'm not being dramatic (unfortunately trying to slightly stress some words with "bold" makes them too dark ... there's no in-between shades of grey! ).

Anyway, George, I just don't want to behave like the Turks and play god by picking and choosing which GCs have their Human Rights compromised by losing some of their beloved country. Cyprus has to REMAIN whole and not be given away piece by piece!

Sorry you don't feel the same way, but my idea is fair and just and therefore right.

Oracle in time we will become one country again. At the moment neither side has any trust. The TC's will never agree to a solution where they feel they dont have a say.

I cant stand seeing my country split the way it is. We cant allwow this to continue. If it means we have to have BBF soluotion to reach a settlement we have to take it.

[B25]

George, I don't agree with the settlers staying and I don't agree with the troops staying for 10 years. Don't you dare speak on my behalf. You cannot just legalise the illegal criminal acts over a passage of time. This is Turkeys game and unfortunately she has soft people like you playing along with her actions.

Settlers came illegally, they have to go. In the UK the deport illegal immigrants whether they have family there or not, they are ILLEGAL and thats thats that.

Troops to stay! What? Are you F mad, it is because of them we have this shit now, no way, if the TCs want to intergrate in a normal society then they don't need those troops. With troops on the ground Turkey would be open to do to the GCs what she did in '74 all over again, she cannot be trusted on anything, infact I wouldn't even trust any signed solution she may sign today.

Who are you to give away 20% of our country to invaders and be happy with it as a compromise, we are giving away nothing, the country is one, they can live in it with us or can go back to mongolia, they were never invited here, they came by force and killed, murdered and raped tens of thousands of your fellow country men and women and don't you forget that.

So when you want to speak about giving the country away give them your arse, not mine! Katalaves!

[Viewpoint]

George we TCs are preapred to compromise on the settlers issue but you cannot expect to ask people to go back to Turkey if they have lived here most of their lives...for arguements sake 2000 would be acceptable to me. But if there is no soluiton then I am not against them working and living here in the TRNC obtaining citizenship after a number of years. We cannotput everything on hold for a solution or that would be holding us to randsome, life goes on and we to need workers in all walks of life...there is easily a population of 500.000 in the TRNC today and this is necessary to keep the country functioning.

Why 20%

I would compromise even further on the troops issue as I know it is a concern for GCs and ask that the whole island be demilitirized but am unable to let of the guarantee as a just in case policy.

The safeguards and guarantees are not a one way street because we have plenty of fanatics on this side as well thats why I do not want to leave any open doors that can be used by either side to upset or derail a new start.

VP I stated 2000 because I agree some of the settlers have grown up and married TC. I have no problem with these settlers. But the stance of your Goverment is not helping a solution. I hope this is all a front and our leaders have been brave to actully have the balls todo what is needed.

I mentioned 20% because that's what the proportion was before the war. With regards to Guarantee's I cant accept a solution where Turkey permenetly have that over our nation.

I believe 10 years is fair by then we would have intergrated in the EU proper. The first Gerneration would then be just leaving school where Greek and Turkish will be taught. Do not listen to some of the GC's that state Greek must be the only language.

After 10 years our police forces would be intergrated and our national army would also be one where Greek and Turkish serve together. Numbers would be equal say 5000 Tc's and 5000 GC's No advantage to either side.

George you are a breath of fresh air but unfortunately for us you are a very small minority and will be attacked by the same GCs that will continue with their negative intrangience and ensure Cyprus stays divided forever.

[YFred]

I am really looking forward to this coordinators arrival, and the behaviour of the extreme Cypriots when he does not say what they would like to hear.
As they would say in UK parliament "hear hear"

[B25]

I am really looking forward to this coordinators arrival, and the behaviour of the extreme Cypriots when he does not say what they would like to hear.
As they would say in UK parliament "hear hear"

You have have all the co-ordinators, intermediatries, brokers, traitors you like, will not make one iota of difference. You are in the wrong and it has been proven time and time again.

The good people of the country will not allow some corrupt bootleg criminals get away with anything. EU co-ordinator, give me a break, another bloody spike in the wheel. You refuse to abide by EU primary law, human rights and what not and you need some pompous, penshushing twerpt to 'co-ordinate'

And you think it is going to help you do you???? You are more stupid that much that you post. pft!

[YFred]

I am really looking forward to this coordinators arrival, and the behaviour of the extreme Cypriots when he does not say what they would like to hear.
As they would say in UK parliament "hear hear"

You have have all the co-ordinators, intermediatries, brokers, traitors you like, will not make one iota of difference. You are in the wrong and it has been proven time and time again.

The good people of the country will not allow some corrupt bootleg criminals get away with anything. EU co-ordinator, give me a break, another bloody spike in the wheel. You refuse to abide by EU primary law, human rights and what not and you need some pompous, penshushing twerpt to 'co-ordinate'

And you think it is going to help you do you???? You are more stupid that much that you post. pft!

Is full democracy part of EU primary law? If it is how does UK get away with a non-elected upper chamber and a non elected head of state?
Was the Social Chapter about Workers rights part of the so called EU law and why was UK allowed to opt out under the conservative Government.
Is human rights part of EU law and why is UK allowed to lock people up indefinitely Goantanamo style without charge.
I think people on this forum know my views on EU law and what to do with it. Either sign the peace agreement or it’s over. We have been negotiating a peace agreement for 35 years and we haven’t moved an inch. I think the harsh realities after December will hit the Cypriot very badly.

[B25]

I am really looking forward to this coordinators arrival, and the behaviour of the extreme Cypriots when he does not say what they would like to hear.
As they would say in UK parliament "hear hear"

You have have all the co-ordinators, intermediatries, brokers, traitors you like, will not make one iota of difference. You are in the wrong and it has been proven time and time again.

The good people of the country will not allow some corrupt bootleg criminals get away with anything. EU co-ordinator, give me a break, another bloody spike in the wheel. You refuse to abide by EU primary law, human rights and what not and you need some pompous, penshushing twerpt to 'co-ordinate'

And you think it is going to help you do you???? You are more stupid that much that you post. pft!

Is full democracy part of EU primary law? If it is how does UK get away with a non-elected upper chamber and a non elected head of state?
Was the Social Chapter about Workers rights part of the so called EU law and why was UK allowed to opt out under the conservative Government.
Is human rights part of EU law and why is UK allowed to lock people up indefinitely Goantanamo style without charge.
I think people on this forum know my views on EU law and what to do with it. Either sign the peace agreement or it’s over. We have been negotiating a peace agreement for 35 years and we haven’t moved an inch. I think the harsh realities after December will hit the Cypriot very badly.

Nothing will happen in December, there will be no agreement, Turkey will not be bashed/penalised or anything else for not extending the customs union agreement to Cyprus and her EU report will be deffered because no one has the balls to stand up to her and say so.

So I won't hold my breath for this december or any december, it aint happening.