Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Jerry said,

Watch out for the pendulum on November 11th and 12th in the British High Court,

Orams - THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.

I hope to be there, (is it in the Strand?)
-----------------------------------------------

So will I Jerry Lewis, watch out for the guy with the wig!!

The real winner regardless of this campaign will obviously be Turkey. It's obvious that Turkey
Will either have to pay off the pre1974 GC owners of the property as they'll not want to move
Back in to their so called former home under the TRNC, so they'll naturally be paid off - hence
Exactly why Turkey allowed the release of names to TRNC properties list. Come on Jerry, you
GCs fell right into Turkey's double-edged sword. While a decision the other way will see the
British courts declare the Cyprus Property a "Political Issue" that will not be solved via
British courts. It's obvious. You see Jerry, and Get Real, I would have thought you would have
Realised that Turkey doesn't care about the minor casualties of a conflict, but the overall
Winning. This case puts the TRNC on the map and forces the British government to act.

Period!

There are many more elements to this case but naturally you'll have to suck up to me a
Little more.....The GCs are so transparent, remember that. You're being played!

And for your so called lawyers, ha ha, let's see what happens when Turkey decides to take a
Couple years out from it's EU talks - watch how the GCs will be made to suffer! It's gonna be
Entertaining.

See you at the Orams case.

So all the collective panic, outrage and hysteria in the north over the ECJ judgement was all a big show to trick the Greek Cypriots into thinking they had won an important legal victory? Man, you guys really fooled us there.

What has changed? nothing not one inch of land has been returned.

It's not about getting back the land now. The ECJ judgement means that the property issue has gone to arbitration and the courts have decided that the land belongs to the original owners. So you see, if Turkey wants a solution it has to deal with that fact. It's not up for discussion. The leaders can't decide on anything that deprives the original owners of their rights because the original owners can just overturn it in the courts. That is how EU law works.

Now Turkey can choose to just stay in the north if it likes and hope that over time some country somewhere might recognise the "TRNC". But the doors to the EU will be closed, the T/Cs will carry on leaving and there will be more lawsuits against Turkey and it's economic interests as well as anyone who owns Greek property in the north.

Turkey can pay compensation but that doesn't change the ownership of the land. It will have to keep paying and paying. If that's what Turkey wants then it's their choice.

The G/Cs can't force Turkey do anything it doesn't want to. All they can do is put pressure on Turkey so they can consider where their best interests lie. It's for Turkey to decide.

[MrH]

Kikapu, I agree with you on the picture and will change it when I get back from my
Travels.

Hermes,

Everyone in the legal profession, particularly in the United Kingdom, its people and government all know what the GCs did Behind the scenes and who the legal panel were before the judgement was made, which is why the British Courts have taken the ECJ decision with a pinch of salt. And, which you will soon realise, with the way the British handle such politically motivated decision, just how the European Court should have dealt with such a racist, one-sided case. Additionally, you also need to understand that the ECJ is not, and was not, ever a unanimous decision, hence why the ECJ ruling is not rippled via the United Kingdom courts, and was not also agreed upon by all EU member states.

But what's more important is how such a case will be treated later (both politically and within the framework of the overall resumption of the Cyprus problem), how it will and could affect Turkey's so called “EU aspiration” and what the EU will ultimately do when faced with a REAL decision making crisis? Let me tell you in simple terms Hermes: When the EU is finally faced with making a decision as to whether to accept Turkey as an EU member state or follow the demands of a few Greek Cypriots and their racist property campaigns, mark my words that the Cyprus situation will be dropped like a bad habit! The Greek Cypriot side of Cyprus may be recognised as an EU member under the current hijacked title of the ROC covering the entire island (which the EU have admitted that mistake countless of times), but in order to remain as the "ROC" a solution to the island's political problem must be agreed. This is where you will either have to yield to a Federal solution of two constituent states, otherwise it will drag on forever and Turkey will either abandon its EU aspirations (which is possible!), or the "representing the entire island" mistake made by the EU will be dropped under a mountain of pressure from the other EU countries in let's say the year 2018 (when you are faced with a completely different EU, Turkey and geopolitical situation). Do you understand? Or are you going to continue to assume that the EU see sunshine out of only the a Greek Cypriot window?

Apart from the above, the other aspect to all this is that Britain is still a Guarantor country of Cyprus who has Clearly stated its fault lines regarding the Cyprus political property issue in the past; how they will not be forced to get involved, hence bye bye the Orams case come November. And you are wrong to assume that this case is built on anything other than ULTIMATELY securing a quick payoff, cementing Partition and placing the TRNC on the UN map - when the time is right of course, unless of course the so called original GC owners of their pre1974 plan on relocating to Northern Cyprus TRNC. What you simply fail to realise here is that the EU Do not have a very favourable track record in dealing with issues that cross that legal-political Line, if you know your history in that particular area?

Therefore the more complicated the Cyprus issue becomes, the less likely a solution is found and the more likely partition will be made legal and accepted at an international level. Continue with your court cases and arguments against us as you are only serving our Two republic state idea of a solution. The only solution base the EU has accepted in recent years with conflict type Political scenarios - like Yugoslavia for instance.

Please tell you don't believe the EU and the United Kingdom are so in love with the Greek Cypriot administered ROC that they will COMPLETELY dismiss a country like Turkey and it's tiny, little demand for Northern Cyprus! (in a political sense of course!).
You seriously should read a couple of books on how conflicts of the past have been solved, how they all suddenly switched in a flash after years of perseverance and patient waiting for some political advantage to crop up. The TRNC will one day be an internationally recognised entity and your President Christofias is clearly aware of this - trust me on this one.

[-mikkie2-]

Mr H just doesn't seem to get it!

You cannot establish a 'country' from ethnic cleansing and stealing other peoples land and property. NO country will recognise the 'trnc' under those circumstances. Examples like Kosovo, Yugoslavia etc are false because the populations in these regions are indeginous and do not involve turfing out the population from their homes to create an ethnically 'pure' state, like Turkey has tried to do in northern Cyprus.

[MrH]

mikkie2,

Sorry m8, I've just had a chance to update the above post as I originally wrote it on a fast-moving train where my fat fingers are not able to swiftly fly around the keyboard of a blackberry device. Please re-read the above edited posting and then reply. But Mikkie2, please think about what you want to say before writing it, think about the bigger, overall picture and whether the TRNC actually cares about such a ruling - in practical terms of course. The Turkish Cypriots abroad (if the UK rules for the GC racist property claim!) can be forced to pay whatever amount by a foreign court, but the TRNC is only compelled to act under the parameters of a UN guided solution to the Cyprus problem, hence why the Cyprus problem has been dragging on for so many years. As I've said previously, Turkey and the TRNC are not interested in a few Turkish Cypriot casualties abroad when it comes to their national issues. Although, we all know the Orams case will fall flat on its face come November - you will see.

The EU only mean something if Turkey decides to accept all Greek Cypriot demands today and is made an instant EU member state. Obviously, we know this is impossible, so let's see who bold the EU will become in many years when Turkey becomes even more needed; in every way.

[-mikkie2-]

"The Turkish Cypriots abroad (if the UK rules for the GC racist property claim!) can be forced to pay whatever amount by a foreign court, but the TRNC is only compelled to act under the parameters of a UN guided solution to the Cyprus problem"

What are you on about? Racist claim? I fail to see how Apostolides is making a racist claim against the Orams or any other person regarding his property. What is racist is the Turks wanting an ethnically 'pure' Turkish state in the north of Cyprus. Now THAT is racist.

[paliometoxo]

this is one political war instead of talking for a solution... its funny to see the crap the turks come up with

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Jerry said,

Watch out for the pendulum on November 11th and 12th in the British High Court,

Orams - THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.

I hope to be there, (is it in the Strand?)
-----------------------------------------------

So will I Jerry Lewis, watch out for the guy with the wig!!

The real winner regardless of this campaign will obviously be Turkey. It's obvious that Turkey
Will either have to pay off the pre1974 GC owners of the property as they'll not want to move
Back in to their so called former home under the TRNC, so they'll naturally be paid off - hence
Exactly why Turkey allowed the release of names to TRNC properties list. Come on Jerry, you
GCs fell right into Turkey's double-edged sword. While a decision the other way will see the
British courts declare the Cyprus Property a "Political Issue" that will not be solved via
British courts. It's obvious. You see Jerry, and Get Real, I would have thought you would have
Realised that Turkey doesn't care about the minor casualties of a conflict, but the overall
Winning. This case puts the TRNC on the map and forces the British government to act.

Period!

There are many more elements to this case but naturally you'll have to suck up to me a
Little more.....The GCs are so transparent, remember that. You're being played!

And for your so called lawyers, ha ha, let's see what happens when Turkey decides to take a
Couple years out from it's EU talks - watch how the GCs will be made to suffer! It's gonna be
Entertaining.

See you at the Orams case.

Mr H I think you will find you are wrong. The EU have given a directive to the Britsh courts and this must be followed. If they wernt going to take the EU decision into consideration why did they wait for them to issue their directive.

MrH time is running out for the so called TRNC or what ever is called. Who knows Turks of Cyprus TC what ever you lot like being called nowadays.

I cant wait to see your response when the judgment goes in our favour.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Kikapu, I agree with you on the picture and will change it when I get back from my
Travels.

Hermes,

Everyone in the legal profession, particularly in the United Kingdom, its people and government all know what the GCs did Behind the scenes and who the legal panel were before the judgement was made, which is why the British Courts have taken the ECJ decision with a pinch of salt. And, which you will soon realise, with the way the British handle such politically motivated decision, just how the European Court should have dealt with such a racist, one-sided case. Additionally, you also need to understand that the ECJ is not, and was not, ever a unanimous decision, hence why the ECJ ruling is not rippled via the United Kingdom courts, and was not also agreed upon by all EU member states.

But what's more important is how such a case will be treated later (both politically and within the framework of the overall resumption of the Cyprus problem), how it will and could affect Turkey's so called “EU aspiration” and what the EU will ultimately do when faced with a REAL decision making crisis? Let me tell you in simple terms Hermes: When the EU is finally faced with making a decision as to whether to accept Turkey as an EU member state or follow the demands of a few Greek Cypriots and their racist property campaigns, mark my words that the Cyprus situation will be dropped like a bad habit! The Greek Cypriot side of Cyprus may be recognised as an EU member under the current hijacked title of the ROC covering the entire island (which the EU have admitted that mistake countless of times), but in order to remain as the "ROC" a solution to the island's political problem must be agreed. This is where you will either have to yield to a Federal solution of two constituent states, otherwise it will drag on forever and Turkey will either abandon its EU aspirations (which is possible!), or the "representing the entire island" mistake made by the EU will be dropped under a mountain of pressure from the other EU countries in let's say the year 2018 (when you are faced with a completely different EU, Turkey and geopolitical situation). Do you understand? Or are you going to continue to assume that the EU see sunshine out of only the a Greek Cypriot window?

Apart from the above, the other aspect to all this is that Britain is still a Guarantor country of Cyprus who has Clearly stated its fault lines regarding the Cyprus political property issue in the past; how they will not be forced to get involved, hence bye bye the Orams case come November. And you are wrong to assume that this case is built on anything other than ULTIMATELY securing a quick payoff, cementing Partition and placing the TRNC on the UN map - when the time is right of course, unless of course the so called original GC owners of their pre1974 plan on relocating to Northern Cyprus TRNC. What you simply fail to realise here is that the EU Do not have a very favourable track record in dealing with issues that cross that legal-political Line, if you know your history in that particular area?

Therefore the more complicated the Cyprus issue becomes, the less likely a solution is found and the more likely partition will be made legal and accepted at an international level. Continue with your court cases and arguments against us as you are only serving our Two republic state idea of a solution. The only solution base the EU has accepted in recent years with conflict type Political scenarios - like Yugoslavia for instance.

Please tell you don't believe the EU and the United Kingdom are so in love with the Greek Cypriot administered ROC that they will COMPLETELY dismiss a country like Turkey and it's tiny, little demand for Northern Cyprus! (in a political sense of course!).
You seriously should read a couple of books on how conflicts of the past have been solved, how they all suddenly switched in a flash after years of perseverance and patient waiting for some political advantage to crop up. The TRNC will one day be an internationally recognised entity and your President Christofias is clearly aware of this - trust me on this one.

You are talking a load of rubbish. Listen mate just because Turkey doesnt obay the laws doesnt mean the Britian doesnt. You are theives we want our land back end of.

[zan]

Kikapu, I agree with you on the picture and will change it when I get back from my
Travels.

Hermes,

Everyone in the legal profession, particularly in the United Kingdom, its people and government all know what the GCs did Behind the scenes and who the legal panel were before the judgement was made, which is why the British Courts have taken the ECJ decision with a pinch of salt. And, which you will soon realise, with the way the British handle such politically motivated decision, just how the European Court should have dealt with such a racist, one-sided case. Additionally, you also need to understand that the ECJ is not, and was not, ever a unanimous decision, hence why the ECJ ruling is not rippled via the United Kingdom courts, and was not also agreed upon by all EU member states.

But what's more important is how such a case will be treated later (both politically and within the framework of the overall resumption of the Cyprus problem), how it will and could affect Turkey's so called “EU aspiration” and what the EU will ultimately do when faced with a REAL decision making crisis? Let me tell you in simple terms Hermes: When the EU is finally faced with making a decision as to whether to accept Turkey as an EU member state or follow the demands of a few Greek Cypriots and their racist property campaigns, mark my words that the Cyprus situation will be dropped like a bad habit! The Greek Cypriot side of Cyprus may be recognised as an EU member under the current hijacked title of the ROC covering the entire island (which the EU have admitted that mistake countless of times), but in order to remain as the "ROC" a solution to the island's political problem must be agreed. This is where you will either have to yield to a Federal solution of two constituent states, otherwise it will drag on forever and Turkey will either abandon its EU aspirations (which is possible!), or the "representing the entire island" mistake made by the EU will be dropped under a mountain of pressure from the other EU countries in let's say the year 2018 (when you are faced with a completely different EU, Turkey and geopolitical situation). Do you understand? Or are you going to continue to assume that the EU see sunshine out of only the a Greek Cypriot window?

Apart from the above, the other aspect to all this is that Britain is still a Guarantor country of Cyprus who has Clearly stated its fault lines regarding the Cyprus political property issue in the past; how they will not be forced to get involved, hence bye bye the Orams case come November. And you are wrong to assume that this case is built on anything other than ULTIMATELY securing a quick payoff, cementing Partition and placing the TRNC on the UN map - when the time is right of course, unless of course the so called original GC owners of their pre1974 plan on relocating to Northern Cyprus TRNC. What you simply fail to realise here is that the EU Do not have a very favourable track record in dealing with issues that cross that legal-political Line, if you know your history in that particular area?

Therefore the more complicated the Cyprus issue becomes, the less likely a solution is found and the more likely partition will be made legal and accepted at an international level. Continue with your court cases and arguments against us as you are only serving our Two republic state idea of a solution. The only solution base the EU has accepted in recent years with conflict type Political scenarios - like Yugoslavia for instance.

Please tell you don't believe the EU and the United Kingdom are so in love with the Greek Cypriot administered ROC that they will COMPLETELY dismiss a country like Turkey and it's tiny, little demand for Northern Cyprus! (in a political sense of course!).
You seriously should read a couple of books on how conflicts of the past have been solved, how they all suddenly switched in a flash after years of perseverance and patient waiting for some political advantage to crop up. The TRNC will one day be an internationally recognised entity and your President Christofias is clearly aware of this - trust me on this one.

You are talking a load of rubbish. Listen mate just because Turkey doesnt obay the laws doesnt mean the Britian doesnt. You are theives we want our land back end of.

You are murderers and we want our rights back under the Zurich agreement and THATS it!!!!

[Jerry]

Jerry said,

Watch out for the pendulum on November 11th and 12th in the British High Court,

Orams - THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.

I hope to be there, (is it in the Strand?)
-----------------------------------------------

So will I Jerry Lewis, watch out for the guy with the wig!!

The real winner regardless of this campaign will obviously be Turkey. It's obvious that Turkey
Will either have to pay off the pre1974 GC owners of the property as they'll not want to move
Back in to their so called former home under the TRNC, so they'll naturally be paid off - hence
Exactly why Turkey allowed the release of names to TRNC properties list. Come on Jerry, you
GCs fell right into Turkey's double-edged sword. While a decision the other way will see the
British courts declare the Cyprus Property a "Political Issue" that will not be solved via
British courts. It's obvious. You see Jerry, and Get Real, I would have thought you would have
Realised that Turkey doesn't care about the minor casualties of a conflict, but the overall
Winning. This case puts the TRNC on the map and forces the British government to act.

Period!

There are many more elements to this case but naturally you'll have to suck up to me a
Little more.....The GCs are so transparent, remember that. You're being played!

And for your so called lawyers, ha ha, let's see what happens when Turkey decides to take a
Couple years out from it's EU talks - watch how the GCs will be made to suffer! It's gonna be
Entertaining.

See you at the Orams case.

The Judge and the barristers wear wigs, you could be done for impersonation

If you are a barrister God help the Orams.

I'm afraid I don't follow your "reasoning".

The British Courts are bound by the law, politics have nothing to do with their involvement in this case. They could be asked to postpone the case by the government in order not to prejuduce the outcome of the talks but I don't think they will do that.

This is not Turkey - the British Government cannot tell the Court what to decide, unless of course parliament and/or theEU change the law.