Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The actions - whether described as 'Baris Kuvvetleri' or invasion forces - of Turkey cannot be construed as 'intercommunal' strife. Am I wrong?

Deniz, if u can tell me some possible scenarios what would have happened if Turkish Peace Forces had not intervened after waiting and calling other concerned parties to take a joint action against the coupists for 5 days following the coup; I'll try to explain u whether the actions of TPF construed as intercommunal strife or a full stop to inter communal strife.

At the time, we were faced by an unknown danger. For all intensive purposes, as far as we were concerned the declaration of Enosis was inevitable. We had no idea which way the GC civil strife would turn. I do accept that under the circumstances the action of the TAF was justified as long as the promises/aims were adhered to. This was not so. It became an occupational army. Once the Legal Goverment was in control, the TA should have returned to 'barracks'. Ofcourse this was made difficult by the combined efforts of the GC's and their fighting forces, but the occupation should not have turned into 'ethnic cleansing.

The fact is that legal government was not in full control when Kliridis was installed as a so-called president(24th July). Irregulars of EOKA-B was still in action. They weren't touched for the sake of GC unity. It was believed that attempting to arrest the irregulars of EOKA-B would lead a civil war among opposing GC groups.

Irregulars of EOKA-B without any fear, still were threatening both the newly installed, so-called President of Cyprus and Turkey with waging a guerilla warfare.

Under such circumstances who would ensure the security of the lives of TCs living all around Cyprus and how?

What could TPF do under such circumstances? Wait until irregulars of EOKA-B begin launching guerilla battles and counter it with a 3rd phase of peace operation?

Deniz, irregulars of EOKA-B freely wandered around Cyprus until 1977. No one could dare to arrest them. In 1977, except some ring leaders of EOKA-B; all forgiven with an amnesty by Makarios.

Had Turkey not launched 2nd phase of peace operation much much more blod would have been shed while wasting time to come to a mutually agreeable position with GC leadership and Greece which were both in a politically very turbulent situation.

TPF together with TC forces achieved the best possible under then the circumstances, IMHO.

The fact is that not a single TC was killed during the coup between 15th of July and 20th of July. Any TC that was killed in 1974 was killed only after Turkey with the help of TC extremists started to kill and ethnically cleanse GCs.

Yeah... It was 100% clear that a psyhopat like Sampson who was a fierce Enosist and Turk hater wouldn't touch any TCs. Turkey should wait until he touch any TCs... that would be too late to intervene...

Why Samson didn't touch TCs during those 5 days? And how is killing and ethnically cleansing innocent people a protection of TCs from Samson. And if Samson was your problem then why the mighty Turkish army didn't kill Samson and they instead choose to ethnically cleanse innocent people and rape under age girls? This is your "peace operation"?

Come on Insan, Partition of Cyprus and the ethnic cleansing was something PLANNED since the 1950s. It was not something that was decided on the 15th of July of 1974.

Have u ever asked yourself why TCs and Turkey wished and struggled for partition of Cyprus? Partition of Cyprus has always been the B plan of Turkey not only just because it was the most difficult to achieve but also they were aware of that being in the same alliance with Greece the differences should be sorted out peacefully... However this was something Greek and GC ultra nationalists have never cared... So the circumstances led to counter the Hellenic armed struggle with Turkic armed struggle... Simple as that...

Rapings, cart, curt r all allegations.. and if any of such allegations r proven true; it only binds the rapists not all TPF and TC forces.

[Piratis]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The actions - whether described as 'Baris Kuvvetleri' or invasion forces - of Turkey cannot be construed as 'intercommunal' strife. Am I wrong?

Deniz, if u can tell me some possible scenarios what would have happened if Turkish Peace Forces had not intervened after waiting and calling other concerned parties to take a joint action against the coupists for 5 days following the coup; I'll try to explain u whether the actions of TPF construed as intercommunal strife or a full stop to inter communal strife.

At the time, we were faced by an unknown danger. For all intensive purposes, as far as we were concerned the declaration of Enosis was inevitable. We had no idea which way the GC civil strife would turn. I do accept that under the circumstances the action of the TAF was justified as long as the promises/aims were adhered to. This was not so. It became an occupational army. Once the Legal Goverment was in control, the TA should have returned to 'barracks'. Ofcourse this was made difficult by the combined efforts of the GC's and their fighting forces, but the occupation should not have turned into 'ethnic cleansing.

The fact is that legal government was not in full control when Kliridis was installed as a so-called president(24th July). Irregulars of EOKA-B was still in action. They weren't touched for the sake of GC unity. It was believed that attempting to arrest the irregulars of EOKA-B would lead a civil war among opposing GC groups.

Irregulars of EOKA-B without any fear, still were threatening both the newly installed, so-called President of Cyprus and Turkey with waging a guerilla warfare.

Under such circumstances who would ensure the security of the lives of TCs living all around Cyprus and how?

What could TPF do under such circumstances? Wait until irregulars of EOKA-B begin launching guerilla battles and counter it with a 3rd phase of peace operation?

Deniz, irregulars of EOKA-B freely wandered around Cyprus until 1977. No one could dare to arrest them. In 1977, except some ring leaders of EOKA-B; all forgiven with an amnesty by Makarios.

Had Turkey not launched 2nd phase of peace operation much much more blod would have been shed while wasting time to come to a mutually agreeable position with GC leadership and Greece which were both in a politically very turbulent situation.

TPF together with TC forces achieved the best possible under then the circumstances, IMHO.

The fact is that not a single TC was killed during the coup between 15th of July and 20th of July. Any TC that was killed in 1974 was killed only after Turkey with the help of TC extremists started to kill and ethnically cleanse GCs.

Yeah... It was 100% clear that a psyhopat like Sampson who was a fierce Enosist and Turk hater wouldn't touch any TCs. Turkey should wait until he touch any TCs... that would be too late to intervene...

Why Samson didn't touch TCs during those 5 days? And how is killing and ethnically cleansing innocent people a protection of TCs from Samson. And if Samson was your problem then why the mighty Turkish army didn't kill Samson and they instead choose to ethnically cleanse innocent people and rape under age girls? This is your "peace operation"?

Come on Insan, Partition of Cyprus and the ethnic cleansing was something PLANNED since the 1950s. It was not something that was decided on the 15th of July of 1974.

Have u ever asked yourself why TCs and Turkey wished and struggled for partition of Cyprus? Partition of Cyprus has always been the B plan of Turkey not only just because it was the most difficult to achieve but also they were aware of that being in the same alliance with Greece the differences should be sorted out peacefully... However this was something Greek and GC ultra nationalists have never cared... So the circumstances led to counter the Hellenic armed struggle with Turkic armed struggle... Simple as that...

Rapings, cart, curt r all allegations.. and if any of such allegations r proven true; it only binds the rapists not all TPF and TC forces.

The answer is easy Insan: Geopolitical interests and expansionism. Why did the Ottomans invade Cyprus? Why the British didn't want to leave from Cyprus?

The British and Turks used your minority as pawns in order to create conflict in Cyprus so they could manage to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

[insan]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The actions - whether described as 'Baris Kuvvetleri' or invasion forces - of Turkey cannot be construed as 'intercommunal' strife. Am I wrong?

Deniz, if u can tell me some possible scenarios what would have happened if Turkish Peace Forces had not intervened after waiting and calling other concerned parties to take a joint action against the coupists for 5 days following the coup; I'll try to explain u whether the actions of TPF construed as intercommunal strife or a full stop to inter communal strife.

At the time, we were faced by an unknown danger. For all intensive purposes, as far as we were concerned the declaration of Enosis was inevitable. We had no idea which way the GC civil strife would turn. I do accept that under the circumstances the action of the TAF was justified as long as the promises/aims were adhered to. This was not so. It became an occupational army. Once the Legal Goverment was in control, the TA should have returned to 'barracks'. Ofcourse this was made difficult by the combined efforts of the GC's and their fighting forces, but the occupation should not have turned into 'ethnic cleansing.

The fact is that legal government was not in full control when Kliridis was installed as a so-called president(24th July). Irregulars of EOKA-B was still in action. They weren't touched for the sake of GC unity. It was believed that attempting to arrest the irregulars of EOKA-B would lead a civil war among opposing GC groups.

Irregulars of EOKA-B without any fear, still were threatening both the newly installed, so-called President of Cyprus and Turkey with waging a guerilla warfare.

Under such circumstances who would ensure the security of the lives of TCs living all around Cyprus and how?

What could TPF do under such circumstances? Wait until irregulars of EOKA-B begin launching guerilla battles and counter it with a 3rd phase of peace operation?

Deniz, irregulars of EOKA-B freely wandered around Cyprus until 1977. No one could dare to arrest them. In 1977, except some ring leaders of EOKA-B; all forgiven with an amnesty by Makarios.

Had Turkey not launched 2nd phase of peace operation much much more blod would have been shed while wasting time to come to a mutually agreeable position with GC leadership and Greece which were both in a politically very turbulent situation.

TPF together with TC forces achieved the best possible under then the circumstances, IMHO.

The fact is that not a single TC was killed during the coup between 15th of July and 20th of July. Any TC that was killed in 1974 was killed only after Turkey with the help of TC extremists started to kill and ethnically cleanse GCs.

Yeah... It was 100% clear that a psyhopat like Sampson who was a fierce Enosist and Turk hater wouldn't touch any TCs. Turkey should wait until he touch any TCs... that would be too late to intervene...

Why Samson didn't touch TCs during those 5 days? And how is killing and ethnically cleansing innocent people a protection of TCs from Samson. And if Samson was your problem then why the mighty Turkish army didn't kill Samson and they instead choose to ethnically cleanse innocent people and rape under age girls? This is your "peace operation"?

Come on Insan, Partition of Cyprus and the ethnic cleansing was something PLANNED since the 1950s. It was not something that was decided on the 15th of July of 1974.

Have u ever asked yourself why TCs and Turkey wished and struggled for partition of Cyprus? Partition of Cyprus has always been the B plan of Turkey not only just because it was the most difficult to achieve but also they were aware of that being in the same alliance with Greece the differences should be sorted out peacefully... However this was something Greek and GC ultra nationalists have never cared... So the circumstances led to counter the Hellenic armed struggle with Turkic armed struggle... Simple as that...

Rapings, cart, curt r all allegations.. and if any of such allegations r proven true; it only binds the rapists not all TPF and TC forces.

The answer is easy Insan: Geopolitical interests and expansionism. Why did the Ottomans invade Cyprus? Why the British didn't want to leave from Cyprus?

The British and Turks used your minority as pawns in order to create conflict in Cyprus so they could manage to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

I agree with u to a degree...Have Greece and Turkey besides TCs and GCs had common geo-political interests they would have sorted out their national and ethnic differences peacefully and the only strife would have been among communists and capitalists of both sides...

[Nikitas]

Ethnic cleansing is OK if you can enforce it forever. But the TCs are obviously not enforcing it, as evidenced by the crossing of some 12000 TCs daily to the free areas inorder to find employment.

As per the Markides quote posted by Tim above and from personal experience it is well established that the community which first conceived and enforced ethnic cleansing in Cyprus were the TCs.

BUT, can this ethnic cleansing be maintained after a settlement and the adoption of a BBF solution? Personally I know it cannot be enforced. Even in areas like Israel where ethnic division is the rule, there is daily movement across the lines, either for employment or other reasons, (ie religious worship, medical reasons etc). In a small place like Cyprus where the major part of economic activity is centered in the south, there will be movement to these centers. So the ethnic division eventually will fray by itself. This of course will happen assuming there is no new undermining of the situation.

The fear here is that there will be a new TC minority in the south and in turn another artificially created crisis demanding new rights. Given the Machiavellian thinking of people like Denktash and his ilk it is easy to see how they can use EU rules to create problems in the GC constituent state, while projecting themselves as victims. We know that ploy very well by now.

If that is the plan, then YES ethnic cleansing must be enforced and keep the problem from arising. There is no margin for any more of this bullshit policy of Turkey.