Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The ones who have been ethnically cleansed, about 180.000, are the Greek Cypriots.

The TCs had partition as their aim since the 1950s. In the words of Denktash:

We wish to establish a federal administration in Cyprus. In order to achieve this, it is necessary to move a portion of the Turks from one place to another place and to concentrate our people in certain parts of the island.

The TCs wanted to move from some areas of Cyprus to some other areas and subsequently annihilate us from those areas in order to establish some Turkish state. When you move from one area to another in order to implement your own plan is not called "ethnic cleansing" dear insan.

Since the whole island had a GC majority the ethnic cleansing of GCs and the concentration of TCs in specific areas of Cyprus was what partition was (and continues to be) all about.

Under what circumstances and when did Denktash make that statement? When the Greek/GC Enosists began to oppress TCs? If Denktash made that statement under the circumstances of where TCs were being oppressed by Hellenic National Front to make TCs accept minority status; then Denktash and his friends did something justifiable to protect lives and rights of TCs.

Insan, your partition aim was created in the 1950s before any conflict started. In fact you started the conflict in order to get partition.

So the order is: 1) Partition aim -> 2) Conflict as means of achieving this aim.

Not the other way around.

Tell me insan. When in the 1950s you were demanding partition and showing maps with half of Cyprus being Turkish, how did you think you would achieve this? Is there any other way of achieving partition except from annihilating the majority of GCs and concentrating all the TCs in that area? Could you really have a "trnc" with population of such "state" made up by a majority of of GCs?

[insan]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The ones who have been ethnically cleansed, about 180.000, are the Greek Cypriots.

The TCs had partition as their aim since the 1950s. In the words of Denktash:

We wish to establish a federal administration in Cyprus. In order to achieve this, it is necessary to move a portion of the Turks from one place to another place and to concentrate our people in certain parts of the island.

The TCs wanted to move from some areas of Cyprus to some other areas and subsequently annihilate us from those areas in order to establish some Turkish state. When you move from one area to another in order to implement your own plan is not called "ethnic cleansing" dear insan.

Since the whole island had a GC majority the ethnic cleansing of GCs and the concentration of TCs in specific areas of Cyprus was what partition was (and continues to be) all about.

Under what circumstances and when did Denktash make that statement? When the Greek/GC Enosists began to oppress TCs? If Denktash made that statement under the circumstances of where TCs were being oppressed by Hellenic National Front to make TCs accept minority status; then Denktash and his friends did something justifiable to protect lives and rights of TCs.

Insan, your partition aim was created in the 1950s before any conflict started. In fact you started the conflict in order to get partition.

So the order is: 1) Partition aim -> 2) Conflict as means of achieving this aim.

Not the other way around.

Tell me insan. When in the 1950s you were demanding partition and showing maps with half of Cyprus being Turkish, how did you think you would achieve this? Is there any other way of achieving partition except from annihilating the majority of GCs and concentrating all the TCs in that area? Could you really have a "trnc" with population of such "state" made up by a majority of of GCs?

GCs were asking Enosis since the begining of British rule.. so what's wrong with TCs asking partition under such circumstances? Wasn't it more justifiable than Enosis? TCs were willing a voluntary movement of population in order to achieve partition without any blood shed but all or nothing political stance of Hellenic National Front, pushed TCs to counter armed struggle with armed struggle.

[Oracle]

This ethnic cleansing by Turkey is a crime against humanity and everyone around the world who cares where our humanity is headed, has to take a firm stance against such medieval practices.

The precedent must be set to overturn Turkey's unilateral determinism towards expansion and prevent the repetition of ethnic cleansing in the future, both by Turkey (habitual offender) and any other country who deems it profitable to mimic Turkey believing they have gotten away with such crimes against humanity .....

Garoyian put it beautifully:

Garoyian stressed that the Greek Cypriot side is interested in seeing the human rights and political freedoms being protected in Cyprus and added: “We will continue fighting for a viable and functional solution which will safeguard the interests of the people of Cyprus, their prospects and future”.
Famagusta-gazette.

It is all about respecting Human Rights .... our civilisation is too important to let Turks sabotage its progress!

[Piratis]

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

And what are your arguments to justify ethnic cleansing against us?

If you believe that "population movements" were necessary in order to separate GCs from TCs, then why you didn't move yourselves a few kilometers to the north, to Turkey? You had every right to do that if you believed it was necessary. What you had no right to do is to ethnically cleanse us and steal our lands.

Piratis, it is not possible to me discussing this issue with u because u believe; first of all TC community should have been treated as a minority. I too, am aware of that had TC community accepted minority status and as a consequence of this everything Hellenic National Front imposed on them; there would have been no Cyprus problem, until some day Turkey face any degree of threat coming over Cyprus.

First of all TCs are a minority, and if they accepted what they really are, equal Cypriots, but as a community indeed a minority, then there would be no problem at all.

But not only you didn't accept the obvious, you went even further and justified ethnic cleansing in order to artificially make yourselves the majority in a part of Cyprus.

Tell me Insan, in this "trnc" that you have, the community of GCs that still lives there are an "equal partner" to this "state"?

Maybe the Greeks in Turkey should also say "We are not a minority" and start making similar demands like you did in Cyprus? But I am sure the Turks would accept such demands, so there wouldn't be any problem there

[insan]

This ethnic cleansing by Turkey is a crime against humanity and everyone around the world who cares where our humanity is headed, has to take a firm stance against such medieval practices.

The precedent must be set to overturn Turkey's unilateral determinism towards expansion and prevent the repetition of ethnic cleansing in the future, both by Turkey (habitual offender) and any other country who deems it profitable to mimic Turkey believing they have gotten away with such crimes against humanity .....

Garoyian put it beautifully:

Garoyian stressed that the Greek Cypriot side is interested in seeing the human rights and political freedoms being protected in Cyprus and added: “We will continue fighting for a viable and functional solution which will safeguard the interests of the people of Cyprus, their prospects and future”.
Famagusta-gazette.

It is all about respecting Human Rights .... our civilisation is too important to let Turks sabotage its progress!

That's why Russian criminals who ethnically cleansed Gerogians just 2 years ago, support Hellenic national cause and Hellenic National front pays back by supporting the Russian's crime against humanity... How civilized dirty cooperation indeed!

[Paphitis]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

This is written to counter the many Turkish Myths and propaganda that is propagated by many Neo Partitionists on this forum.

A common propaganda bite used by the Turkish state to legitimize its 1974 invasion of Cyprus is that "The Greek Cypriots then unleashed a campaign of extermination and eviction that killed or wounded thousands and drove a frightening percentage of Turkish Cypriots into besieged enclaves.." (Insight Magazine, "Fences Might Be the Right Thing for Multiethnic Nation of Cyprus", Ahmet Erdengiz, Feb. 7).

And let’s not mention the false claims of genocide which only claimed about 800 TC lives, compared to some 10,000 GC victims from 1958-1974.

And the sole purpose of these besieged enclaves was none other than to facilitate the dream of TAKSIM!

This claim has been refuted by findings of impartial sources such as the UN Secretary General's report No. S/5950, para. 142 which confirms that as a result of the brief but turbulent period of hostilities between Greek and Turkish-Cypriot extremists from December 21, 1963 to June 8, 1964, a total of 43 Greek Cypriots and 232 Turkish Cypriots are missing and presumed dead. Clearly, this was no "campaign of extermination".

Even UN Secretary General's report S/5950, para. 142 refutes the Turkish claims of extermination and genocide.

Why let facts get in the way of a good story when TAKSIM is your sole objective?

Moreover, these deaths were a direct result of Britain's documented policy of arming Turkish separatists and encouraging Greco-Turkish conflict to facilitate its control over Cyprus.

The real culprit of GC and TC victims has been identified..

While extremists of both communities are to blame for intercommunal violence, fuelled by British attempts to prevent this overwhelmingly Greek island-nation from achieving its self-determination, history is clear that Turkish extremists initiated the cycle of violence that claimed victims on both sides.

In June of 1958, a bomb explosion outside the information office of the Turkish Consulate-- later shown to have been planted by Turkish extremists (the "TMT")--set off the first intercommunal clashes on Cyprus. As noted by British author Christopher Hitchens in his highly acclaimed work on Cyprus, Hostage to History, the self-proclaimed president of Cyprus' occupation regime, Rauf Denktash, admitted in a 1984 interview that it was a Turkish Cypriot friend who planted the bomb. As a result, "Turkish Cypriots promptly burned out a neighbouring district of Greek shops and homes, in what was to be the first Greek-Turkish physical confrontation on the island. A curfew was imposed, and Greek guerrillas [were] blamed [by British authorities] for the bomb as they were for everything else."

The fact that the TCs were the first to instigate intercommunal violence against the GCs, as a pre-cursor for TAKSIM is well documented.

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.

More British crimes against Cyprus and their very clever policy of instigating further destabilising violence through "Divide and Rule".

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority. In a single week over 600 families, two-thirds of them Greek, left their homes, and many Turks who left Greek areas did so under intense pressure from Turkish separatists.

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence. Turks caught smoking Greek cigarettes or visiting Greek shops were beaten, and Turkish gangs forced some Turkish Cypriots to resign from Greek Cypriot trade unions. In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT. Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia. "Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created. However, this so-called `first phase' of the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey only partly succeeded, since well over half of its brethren refused to obey instructions to abandon their homes for the predetermined enclaves" (The Making of Modern Cyprus, Panteli). On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

TCs are then forced into enclaves by separatist TMT terrorists.

TMT terror against TCs was also instrumental at enforcing TCs to withdraw into enclaves in order to facilitate TAKSIM more easily.

The enclaves were mostly created by TMT separatists in order to facilitate TAKSIM, and have far less to do with the exaggerated propaganda by Neo Partitionists that TCs were forced to withdraw into enclaves for protection against the GCs.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... mt&start=0

[Paphitis]

Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.

And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.

In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.

Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.

On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!

[Paphitis]

The first victims of any Inter Communal Violence were GCs:

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

On 12 June 1958 eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish Cypriot populated village of Geunyeli in an totally unprovoked attack, after being dropped off there by the British authorities. After this the Turkish government ordered the TMT to blow up the offices of the Turkish press office in Nicosia in order to falsely put the blame of the Greek Cypriots and prevent independence negotiations from succeeding. It also began a string of assassinations and murders of prominent Turkish Cypriot supporters of independence.

ON June 12 1958, eight innocent unarmed Greek Cypriots were murdered by TMT.

Further evidence that TCs instigated the first violent acts against GCs:

In June 1958 the British prime Minister Harold Macmillan was expected to proposed a plan to resolve the Cyprus issue. In light of the new development the Turks created fierce riots in Nicosia aiming to promote the idea that Greeks and Turks could not live together and therefore any plan that would promote that would not be viable, instead partition would be the only viable solution. This violence soon to be followed by bombing, Greek Cypriots deaths and looting of Greek owned stores and houses resulted in Greeks and Turks started to evade mixed populated villages that the respective were a minority in search of safety. This was effectively the beginning of segregation of the two communities.[8]. On the 7th of June 1958 a bomb exploded at the entrance of the Turkish Embassy in Cyprus. Following the bombing Turkish Cypriots looted Greek Cypriot properties. On June 26th 1984 the then Turkish Cypriot Leader, Rauf Denktaş, admitted on British channel ITV that the bomb was placed by the Turks themselves in order to create tension.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... l-violence

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4EpCV2ysk

Also I must remind you that the TMT was formed after and as a counter measure to EOKA/ENOSIS.

The TMT was formed to further the TC dream for partition:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority. In a single week over 600 families, two-thirds of them Greek, left their homes, and many Turks who left Greek areas did so under intense pressure from Turkish separatists.

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence. Turks caught smoking Greek cigarettes or visiting Greek shops were beaten, and Turkish gangs forced some Turkish Cypriots to resign from Greek Cypriot trade unions. In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT. Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia. "Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created. However, this so-called `first phase' of the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey only partly succeeded, since well over half of its brethren refused to obey instructions to abandon their homes for the predetermined enclaves" (The Making of Modern Cyprus, Panteli). On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

[Piratis]

- 30.000 TCs became refugees from 1963 until 1967 and later 50.000 TCs became refugees in 1974-1975. 1/3 of TC community became refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

- 140.000 GCs became refugees from 1974 until 1977. 1/3 of GC community bacame refugees as a consequence of inter communal strife.

Was this situation the result of an ethnic cleansing plan or happened as a consequence of inter communal strife? Let's examine...

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

The ones who have been ethnically cleansed, about 180.000, are the Greek Cypriots.

The TCs had partition as their aim since the 1950s. In the words of Denktash:

We wish to establish a federal administration in Cyprus. In order to achieve this, it is necessary to move a portion of the Turks from one place to another place and to concentrate our people in certain parts of the island.

The TCs wanted to move from some areas of Cyprus to some other areas and subsequently annihilate us from those areas in order to establish some Turkish state. When you move from one area to another in order to implement your own plan is not called "ethnic cleansing" dear insan.

Since the whole island had a GC majority the ethnic cleansing of GCs and the concentration of TCs in specific areas of Cyprus was what partition was (and continues to be) all about.

Under what circumstances and when did Denktash make that statement? When the Greek/GC Enosists began to oppress TCs? If Denktash made that statement under the circumstances of where TCs were being oppressed by Hellenic National Front to make TCs accept minority status; then Denktash and his friends did something justifiable to protect lives and rights of TCs.

Insan, your partition aim was created in the 1950s before any conflict started. In fact you started the conflict in order to get partition.

So the order is: 1) Partition aim -> 2) Conflict as means of achieving this aim.

Not the other way around.

Tell me insan. When in the 1950s you were demanding partition and showing maps with half of Cyprus being Turkish, how did you think you would achieve this? Is there any other way of achieving partition except from annihilating the majority of GCs and concentrating all the TCs in that area? Could you really have a "trnc" with population of such "state" made up by a majority of of GCs?

GCs were asking Enosis since the begining of British rule.. so what's wrong with TCs asking partition under such circumstances? Wasn't it more justifiable than Enosis? TCs were willing a voluntary movement of population in order to achieve partition without any blood shed but all or nothing political stance of Hellenic National Front, pushed TCs to counter armed struggle with armed struggle.

Again: "integration into an independent State" was a legitimate option for the Cypriot people to democratically choose. Cyprus stop being part of the British empire and becoming part of the Greek State in accordance with the democratic will of the Cypriot people would violate no human right of anybody.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Ethnic cleansing on the other hand is indeed a crime against humanity, and it was required for partition to happen.

If TCs were willing for a "voluntary movement" then they had every right to move themselves a few kilometers to the north, to Turkey. After all this kind of move would require less people to be moved (just 120.000 TCs, as opposed to 180.000 GCs + TCs).

[insan]

I highly tend to believe that population movements were inevitable under then the circumstances...

And what are your arguments to justify ethnic cleansing against us?

If you believe that "population movements" were necessary in order to separate GCs from TCs, then why you didn't move yourselves a few kilometers to the north, to Turkey? You had every right to do that if you believed it was necessary. What you had no right to do is to ethnically cleanse us and steal our lands.

Piratis, it is not possible to me discussing this issue with u because u believe; first of all TC community should have been treated as a minority. I too, am aware of that had TC community accepted minority status and as a consequence of this everything Hellenic National Front imposed on them; there would have been no Cyprus problem, until some day Turkey face any degree of threat coming over Cyprus.

First of all TCs are a minority, and if they accepted what they really are, equal Cypriots, but as a community indeed a minority, then there would be no problem at all.

But not only you didn't accept the obvious, you went even further and justified ethnic cleansing in order to artificially make yourselves the majority in a part of Cyprus.

Tell me Insan, in this "trnc" that you have, the community of GCs that still lives there are an "equal partner" to this "state"?

Maybe the Greeks in Turkey should also say "We are not a minority" and start making similar demands like you did in Cyprus? But I am sure the Turks would accept such demands, so there wouldn't be any problem there

What's happened, happened; Piratis. I'm not saying let's forget what happened in the past; ofc we will discuss the events of the past, it's our history...

Under current circumstances, our goal should be; how can we solve the Cyprus problem by not leading another bloody strife between 2 communities of Cyprus.

I support return of GC refugees and settlement of non GC refugees in TC constituent state as long as total number of GCs not exceed the number of TCs residing in TC constituent state. Let's say if number of GCs residing in TC constituent state is 1/4 or more of TC community; they should be given "politically equal" status in local lower Senate of TC constituent state just like how TCs should be given "politically equal" status in upper senate at federal level.