Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

jesus,

you make interesting comments; however the lack of intelligence is evident in your posts and one can only but take your opinions lightly.

Obviously more suffering will take place and mor esacrifices are needed to be made.

Apparently you are OK with suffering and sacrifices having been made but now they must stop all of a sudden to satisfy one party?

This is my opinion:
The boundaires should be left as they are.

GC's will say :
those lands belonged to us.
then Turks will say:
They belonged to us in the first place during the Ottoman rule.
then the British might say:
We owned the island after the ottoman rule so it should be given back to us.

the land in cyprus belongs to GCs and TCs by title deeds that are officially recognized by every country in the world EXCEPT for Turkey. Has Turkey all of a sudden become the centre of the universe?

This could go on forever. We can go as far back as Adam and Eve. And if everyone left their lands to their original owners; Turks would end up around Mongolia, and since it is belived that the mankind spreaded to earth from Africa, we all might as well go back to Africa.

no we dont have to go as far back as adam and eve because treaties have been signed that have established the rights of every country to its borders. such a treaty has never been signed between the two communities of Cyprus.

Do you understand now how I get to the point that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed even though I've only read a few of your posts?

[jesus]

jesus,

you make interesting comments; however the lack of intelligence is evident in your posts and one can only but take your opinions lightly.

Yes you are right, my opinions can be taken lightly if derived from a single point of view.

Apparently you are OK with suffering and sacrifices having been made but now they must stop all of a sudden to satisfy one party?

What makes you think it will satisfy only one party? Won't GC's benefit from a settlement of disputes? Or are you ok with the current situation, becasue the GC's are in an advantageous position?

the land in cyprus belongs to GCs and TCs by title deeds that are officially recognized by every country in the world EXCEPT for Turkey. Has Turkey all of a sudden become the centre of the universe?

The center of the universe is yet to be determined.

no we dont have to go as far back as adam and eve because treaties have been signed that have established the rights of every country to its borders. such a treaty has never been signed between the two communities of Cyprus.

Do you understand now how I get to the point that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed even though I've only read a few of your posts?

In 1960 Turkey, Greece and Britain were given rights to intervene together or ALONE in order to protect the state of affairs in case it was disturbed or threatened.

Once the bi-communal partnership failed in Cyprus, Turkey used her rights to intervene and came to the island. This shouldn't be a surprise, since there
rights were agreed upon in 1960 treaty. In 1963 Archbishop Makarios proposed to amend 13 points of the constitution which he knew that TC's would not
agree because the amendments would nulify the status of the TC's as a co-founder partner of the partnership republic and turn them into a minority. (Would GC's had accepeted this if they were in the same situation?) Makarios's aim vas obviously to convert the partnership Republic into a Cypriot republic.
Thus, the GC's were organized into battle forcing the TC's for resistance and making a way for the changes in the constitution.

Once things went out of control, Turkish jets flew over Nicosia on Christmas day 1963 and the Turkish contingent (650 men who had arrived in Cyprus in 1960
in compliance with the 1960 agreements) cam out of its camp. These two incidents prove two things. First is that the treaty of guarantee was active; the second was that Turkey ha dno intention to invade the island. They only wanted the battles to be over.

Then more conferences took place. First one was in London. I do not need to tell you what happened until the turkish military landing on the island. You all know it well.

So dont tell me that there were treaties and etc. Who broke the treaty in the first place? Wasn't TC's constitutional rights were violated long before the war broke out in 1974?

You just don't understand my point. I am not talking about revenge or gettign even. I am simply saying that the current situation is not helping anyone. And unity doesn't seem to going to happen. Why don't we just go on the way it is?

[jesus]

you made your point. I can't say I like your style. You barely know me and you call me fucking asshole.

I won't ever respond to you again. I only cary conversations with those who can do it in a civilized manner.

Piratis is one of the old hands on here Jesus and despite his rather caustic manner does at times come up with some pretty good ideas. He's been getting a bit more grouchy in his old age, so we tend to excuse his outbursts these days. Therefore, I'd advise you to keep arguing with him, I'm sure he enjoys it really and you might learn something about the more hard-line GC perspective. He's certainly nothing like the Achilles person we saw recently, Piratis has a brain.

then I can expect an apology

One line posts will be deleted from THIS SECTION of the forum in the future.Exceptions apply to questions/short answers and posts that clearly promote the discussion.Other exceptions at discretion.
Please expand your thoughts or comments.

[jesus]

There cannot be two separate countries because while the corrupt government that is Turkey is occupying our lands and their parasites sit in our homes...there will NEVER be peace on the island.

Some TC conveniently try to make us think that there is peace on the island since the invasion..but there will never be peace till justice is done and the ethnic cleansers of christians leave the north of Cyprus.

You are so right. There can never be peace with this approach. If you are stuck with the idea that your lands are still occupied, then you are not likely to accept any solution for peace.

As Mr. Clerides Stated in 1992, as published in Fileleftheros, a Greek Cypriot daily, on 20 September 1992:

"The best solution for us is no solution. Next year we shall be where we were the last year, and the next, where we were the year before. We, the Greek Cypriots, today have the government completely under our control. We do not have the Vice-president with his veto or the three Turkish ministers in it All the ministers are Greeks. Our government is the only one internationally recognised. Why should we bring back the Turks? The Turks today control only three per cent of the land the area comprising their enclaves. They haven't got net resources and are having difficult times because of economic atrophy. Finally they will have to accept our decisions or go."

Can there be peace with this mentality?

[Piratis]

If you are stuck with the idea that your lands are still occupied, then you are not likely to accept any solution for peace.

If you are stuck with the idea that our lands are not occupied (something apparent to everybody except Turks), then it is not likely to accept any solution for peace.
Or do you think during the World War II the other nations would be satisfied to sign a peace treaty that would give their own land to the Axis forces? No, they fought until they got their land back and after they signed a peace treaty. (actually some nations might have been forced to sign such treaties during the war, but such treaties are never legitimate and this is why they were not kept)

So give our land back first and the peace will come. There is no other way. Even if we were forced to sign something, peace will not come until you give back what was stolen from us.

[Dhavlos]

i hope i dont cause offense, but the people who are from Turkey and Greece cannot speak for or try to propose a solution. it needs to come about from the cypriot people.

discussions like this are ultimately dead because the people talking are from turkey or greece, as well as cypriots.

(In very general terms) Turks and Greeks both feel as though cyprus is 'theirs' so neither side is willing to give it up, or propose anything that is necessarily 'good' for the cypriot people.

A lasting solution must come from below, from the cypriot people, not imposed from above, by others.

[Main_Source]

If you are stuck with the idea that your lands are still occupied, then you are not likely to accept any solution for peace

If you think we should lie down and accept our homes and land have been taken, then with the same mentality there would have never been a Greek revoloution and we would still be under Ottoman opression.

Keep on dreaming about your false ideoligies of 'peace' because we wont quit till justice is done.

[magikthrill]

In 1960 Turkey, Greece and Britain were given rights to intervene together or ALONE in order to protect the state of affairs in case it was disturbed or threatened.

Once the bi-communal partnership failed in Cyprus, Turkey used her rights to intervene and came to the island. This shouldn't be a surprise, since there
rights were agreed upon in 1960 treaty.

i will not give you full sentences because a) you do not deserve them and b) the censoship police will be on my ass again.

-treaty of guarantee gave right to Turkey to intervene and re-establish the state of affairs - NOT PARTITION THE ISLAND.

So dont tell me that there were treaties and etc. Who broke the treaty in the first place? Wasn't TC's constitutional rights were violated long before the war broke out in 1974?

- Turkey did not care about RoC which is why when it intervened it illegally partitioned the island instead of returning constituional order.
- My reference to this situation in the first place was to inform you that it isnt difficult to determine to whom the land belongs to - NOT so you can show off your limited knowledge of the issue.

[quote]
You just don't understand my point.quote]

Probably because I am more aware of the facts than are you.

[Agios Amvrosios]

Justanamerican said:

So why not move forward, compensate the affected and think forward toward turning Cyprus into the agricultural, economic, trade, and tourist hub of the Eastern Med, where all Cypriots benefit.

Compensation is not a suitable legal remedy for the refugees.Restitution or the right of a refugee to live in his or her own town and village is the only practical remedy. The cost of compensating mass ethnic displacement cannot be quanitfied.

What I am trying to say is that mere loss of "real estate" is to be distinguished with entirely erasing off the face of Occupied Northern Cyprus, a number of ethnic groups with thousands of years of connection to that land. Some people do consider this fundamental issue before suggesting that a cheque can remedy ethnic cleansing. It should be thought of as a separate head of damage altogether.

Justanamerican, How do you compensate the right to even exist?

In any case none of the past proposals adequately compensated for loss of real estate.

[Main_Source]

This Just An American geezer wants 'TRNC' legalised so the United Empire of America can establish a base in the north.