Cyprus-Forum.com

[cannedmoose]

The first question to ask (or which will inevitably be asked) is:

What will the boundary between the two states be?

This goes straight to the heart of the two state issue. I think a lot of people will be happy with this arrangement as long as this question is answered to their satisfaction. And that's the problem, most GCs will only be happy with this solution if there is a dramatic reduction in the size of the TC state, conversely most TC would be unhappy with this arrangement not least because it will mean more refugees but also because it makes the TC state less economically viable.
So immediately we can see one issue that would arise from such a proposal.

Of course I am biased towards having some kind of union, that's not to say that this solution couldn't work.

Alexi, I proposed a map previously when writing about my perspective on a solution, unfortunately that original map was lost.

What I originally proposed was a 'three-system' solution, with a GC constituent state, a TC constituent state and Federal zones, incorporating both Lefkosia and Famagusta, all ports and airports, Akamas and Karpass.

I've posted a revised map based on this, but in a two-state, one country solution, I've removed the federal zones for Lefkosia and Famagusta and left the cities divided between the two states. Akamas and Karpass would be designated national heritage zones or national parks and shared federal responsibility for their maintenance would be held by the two states, and all international ports and airports would continue to be federal-run zones between the two states, with revenue and expenditure divided accordingly (I'm not too sure on the exact location of Ercan/Tymbou, so I haven't indicated this on the map).

The boundaries between the two states are marked with a Green line (appropriately), with the federal zones boundaries marked in red. According to a rough estimate, this would leave approximate 75% of the land in GC hands, 20% in TC hands, with the remaining 5% jointly held by both states. It would return Morfou to the GCs, Famagusta would be retained by TCs, but with Varosha returned to the GC. Mesaoria would be bisected, the boundary running along the main route from Lefkosia to Famagusta. It would also leave most of the bay of Famagusta in TC hands for development as a tourist area.

It's a very detached way of looking at things, given that this would affect real people, but nonetheless it's a starting point for discussion.

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[jesus]

Jesus...

I think your idea is good, but the problem is that if there are two states, under the Eu, then freedom of movement will almost definately end in the North becoming overrun with GCs who have bought back their old properties, or near their properties. The TCs will be left with nothing again.

The problem, sadly is too complicated for a simple two state solution

If the TC's would sell to GC's then that should not be a problem. It would be their choice so they would have to face the consequences.

However; hypothetically the economic sanctions will be lifted, resulting in an increased wealth for TC's. Thus they would not need to sell their lands to GC's. Again, even if they do, it should not be a problem, because the TC's are allready selling land to the British, Turks and other nationalities. So why shouldn't they sell to the Greek Cypriots?

[Dhavlos]

Again, even if they do, it should not be a problem, because the TC's are allready selling land to the British, Turks and other nationalities. So why shouldn't they sell to the Greek Cypriots?

but what if 'foreigners' begin to sell their houses/land to GCs?

[Piratis]

Why cant whatever happened in the past be forgotten and go on as two different countries on one island?

Isn't this what we now have de-facto?

If what you want is legalization of your illegal state thought, thats different. What you grabbed is the land that our ancestors lived for 3500 years, our history is there, it is our land. It is not just about money, even if you could theoretically buy that land from its owners, the land would still belong to Republic of Cyprus.

So you can keep it as long as you can. Later on we will take back our land either you like it or not.

However if you think its easy to forget your own country, then we would be more than glad to pay TCs to move out of Cyprus totally once and for all. Would you accept that?

[jesus]

Again, even if they do, it should not be a problem, because the TC's are allready selling land to the British, Turks and other nationalities. So why shouldn't they sell to the Greek Cypriots?

but what if 'foreigners' begin to sell their houses/land to GCs?

Why should that be a problem?

Then we can ask this question:

What if there is an earthquake and the island sank?

[jesus]

Why cant whatever happened in the past be forgotten and go on as two different countries on one island?

Isn't this what we now have de-facto?

If what you want is legalization of your illegal state thought, thats different. What you grabbed is the land that our ancestors lived for 3500 years, our history is there, it is our land. It is not just about money, even if you could theoretically buy that land from its owners, the land would still belong to Republic of Cyprus.

So you can keep it as long as you can. Later on we will take back our land either you like it or not.

However if you think its easy to forget your own country, then we would be more than glad to pay TCs to move out of Cyprus totally once and for all. Would you accept that?

I thought I had explained this before. If we get into ancestors and real owners; we can't get anywhere.

Yes you are right. The island belonged to your ancestors for 3500 years. I am really sorry that you have lost it. But that is the way things work out in the world. If you think like that then whichever race that was living in Cyprus before your ancestors came back and said this island originally belonged to us, then you would have to give it back.

As I said before, if everyone reclaimed their ancectors' lands then the world would end up being a jigsaw puzzle.

[Alexis]

moose,

You're right, it's a good starting point, and of course there is no magic boundary which will sit well with everyone. The existence of federal zones is a good idea as it brings together both administrations and provides a 'one-country' feel.

I also think that provided any restrictions to settlement are not permanent, the exact placing of the border is not too important. It is a means to an end, to make the GCs feel as though the have recovered some of the land that they lost and at the same time provide the TC with a zone they can call their own. In time, a successful solution will help integrate the two communities enough to render the position of the border almost irrelevant.

[Dhavlos]

Why should that be a problem?

Then we can ask this question:

What if there is an earthquake and the island sank?

It would be very sad and lots of people would die. Not very happy scenario...

but who would gain the rights to the sea now occupying the area that was cyprus?!?! hehe

alexis...

In time, a successful solution will help integrate the two communities enough to render the position of the border almost irrelevant.

i agree...that would be a successful solution.

[BigDutch]

Why cant whatever happened in the past be forgotten and go on as two different countries on one island?

This will only show that fanatics, power hungry politicians and militarily dominance can do whatever they want and "the people" just have to put up with it.

If both TC & GC majorities were able to accept that it was only the fanatic minorities from each camp that caused the problems in the first place, then "people power" could just prevail.

If you accept "one-island-two-countries" then you have given up fighting for your community, your rights, your country and your fellow Cypriots.

[jesus]

Why cant whatever happened in the past be forgotten and go on as two different countries on one island?

This will only show that fanatics, power hungry politicians and militarily dominance can do whatever they want and "the people" just have to put up with it.

If both TC & GC majorities were able to accept that it was only the fanatic minorities from each camp that caused the problems in the first place, then "people power" could just prevail.

If you accept "one-island-two-countries" then you have given up fighting for your community, your rights, your country and your fellow Cypriots.

I totally agree with you. However; is trying to unite two different parts who never got along well gonna change the world?

Okay by not accepting "one-island-two-countries", you are gonna keep up the fight. But will that punish the fanatic minorities? Will it make anything better for the people who suffer?

I am totally against violence but it just can't be stopped. It is a part of our nature.

Remember there is no Justice. We still practice the brutal rules - the strong will always dominate the weak.

Look at USA, despite all the oppositions, they entered Iraq and somehow managed to justify their actions.