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Is it treason to wish for unity?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:49 pm

Omer Seyhan wrote:
insan wrote:Dear Ömer,

I would like u to clarify something to us... Let's suppose, there's no Turkey behind TCs or as u like Turkey is not the boss we r servants of...

What would have changed? We would have accepted minority status in a GC ruled Cyprus and led a prosperous life like GCs? Or they would have forced us to accept minority status

I don't think so.. first of all we would have to accept their false, heroic, historical fairy tales; if not there r 2 options to choose:

1) Don't accept their false, heroic, historical fairy tales but appear as if u believe it.(ass-licking)

2) Immigrate to another country.


There r many other aspects that make TCs struggle against GC domination but first I'd like to hear ur opinions regarding the above mentioned issue.


I never ass lick Insan... its not my style.

I strongly believe more than you are prepared to give me credit for that there is a third way. There is an option where all Cypriots can be equal in a state that is bilingual, where ethnic differences are gradually diluted over time, where everybody speaks both languages and when nobody cares anymore about the "Myceanean Greeks" or "Ottoman Turks". When everybody puts Cyprus' national interests first and communal issues are reduced to issues about local issues, education, environment, employment etc...

If we have only your two choices Insan and I and thousands others like me cannot be Cypriots in a reunited Cyprus then I'd rather every Turkish Cypriot brother and sister left for England and became English. I will nerver accept assimilation whether with Greeks or with Turks.


Ömer, did I claim that u r an ass-licker or in any way i implied something like that? Obviously no.

U say when everyone puts Cyprus' national interests first... but until now, almost noone has put Cyprus' national interests first becaue there has never been a nation called Cypriot.

It is a well known fact that vast majority of 2 communities, respectively; either consider themselves as a part of Greek nation or Turkish nation. No matter what mixed ethnicity actually they have, this is the fact how they consider their ethnic origins and naturally each group feels closer to their own ethnic group.

In my opinion, instead of forcing them to accept a so-called Cypriot nationality it is more rational to accept the people of Cyprus as they are and give effort to base the unity on this reality.

Can't 2 nations get united under a unitary or federal state structure? In my opinion, if they have common political and economical interests they can... The biggest problem infront of us is that TCs r less in numbers when compared to GC population and in this case TC community would politically be vulnerable in other nation; GCs. Therfore, rules of classic democracy wouldn't work for uniting 2 communities of different nationality. What we need is a type of consociational democracy that would contribute political and economical integration of 2 communities and prevent exploitaion of both communities, thus lead unity of Cypriots.

After the economical and political union of Cypriots; people should exert to be at least bi-lingual(Greek-Turkish) and bi-cultural(TC-GC).

In such a Cyprus i described above, I see no reason for people of Cyprus not getting along well.
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Re: Is it treason to wish for unity?

Postby Paphitis » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:26 pm

Omer Seyhan wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Omer wrote:
Dear Paphitis,

I hope one day you will understand the Turkish Cypriots better.

It has not been easy for them.


Look around you Omer! Look at the vile preached by many TCs.

One even gloated about their father killing TCs in Lurucina, but then deleted the post.

I understand and I share the suffering and loss of all Cypriots in 1974 and before but I must point out a few contemprary facts to you.


That's very nice of you Omer...

Greek Cypriots have been left with a state in their possession and all the benefits (and responsibilities) it carries. Turkish Cypriots may benefit a little as RoC citizens but they cannot participate in decision-making and are limited in how much they can benefit from citizenship. Only Greek Cypriots can fully enjoys the fruits of the EU.


The TCs will be able to participate once the TA and settlers are removed. I'm afraid that the invasion has also placed the TCs in a precarious position, but Turkey does not care about that.

The RoC however will not deny the TCs certain rights such as citizenship, education and free medical care.

A Greek Cypriot doctoral student can get tens of thousands Cyprus pounds worth of grants by the Government, they can work in the European Parliament, Commission, become MEP and Commissioner, they can trade with the world and open any franchise in Cyprus they like. Turkish Cypriots can at best expect whatever trickles down, whatever crumbs are left over...


From what I understand, some TC students are studying at the University of Cyprus...

But I take your point for the rest of it.

In the north, people do all kinds of unpleasant things to get by as Turkey is the boss there. Most Turkish Cypriots do not like the situation but are powerless to change it. They have become servants of Turkey (its not a nice term to use I know) because there is really no choice. In many respects its easier for those people like me who do not work in the civil service there, who do not rely on bread money from the civil service, but 1/3 of the workforce in the north do. Most of them voted YES in the Annan Plan to reunify their country and in some cases leave their home and relocate so that the original owners get it back. Are they all traitors in your eyes?


Agreed! Not all TCs are traitors.

But I hope you understand why The Annan Plan was not accepted by the GCs. It was not because we don't want a solution.

I'd like to see how you would react if confronted with the same big, Turkish bully that threatens us every day. Would you be so quick to stand up to the bully? Would you be so daring to speak out?


Under these circumstances, I would endeavor to be a dissident. If that is not possible, then I would probably migrate, or move to the RoC, because I know that in the RoC , my rights and civil liberties as an individual are protected.

Also, don't forget Turkish Cypriots are human beings. Human Beings are complicated. You are complicated too.

Regards,
Omer


Of course TCs are human. I would never argue against that.


I can see we are both in agreement on this, which pleases me.


Omer, I see what you are trying to do, and I'm not against you in any way.

I too appreciate the plight of TCs.

But questioning our right of self determining our heritage, which happens to be Hellenic, is just not on.

I do not question yours, and would appreciate it if you extend the same courtesy.

Thanks.

P
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Re: Is it treason to wish for unity?

Postby zan » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:38 pm

Omer Seyhan wrote:IF THIS BE TREASON

SO THIS is treason, that a love of land

strengthen and circle in our hearts

through every hour of every day?

So this is treason, that our minds

should stir to none but native breeze,

that we should dream of unity

and our land’s high purpose,

that we should see

a national future

triumphant in our song,

that we should be

willing servants

of Cyprus' dream?

If this be treason, then let every tree

fall to the axe, let all brave flowers

wither in traitorous disgrace.

If this be treason, then the very earth

offends against the state,

and every stick and stone

plots order’s overthrow,

assassination breeds

in every village, the Horgadigo/Koylu's sabotage

broods on each Lemon grove.

If love of land a dastard treason be,

then black glows the sun and solid is the sea.


Where do we display our heroes?
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Re: Is it treason to wish for unity?

Postby kurupetos » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:55 pm

CBBB wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Omer Seyhan wrote:IF THIS BE TREASON

SO THIS is treason, that a love of land

strengthen and circle in our hearts

through every hour of every day?

So this is treason, that our minds

should stir to none but native breeze,

that we should dream of unity

and our land’s high purpose,

that we should see

a national future

triumphant in our song,

that we should be

willing servants

of Cyprus' dream?

If this be treason, then let every tree

fall to the axe, let all brave flowers

wither in traitorous disgrace.

If this be treason, then the very earth

offends against the state,

and every stick and stone

plots order’s overthrow,

assassination breeds

in every village, the Horgadigo/Koylu's sabotage

broods on each Lemon grove.

If love of land a dastard treason be,

then black glows the sun and solid is the sea.


Save it for the TCs, because it is they that have betrayed the island, their own community and themselves....

GCs have no illusions.


They do, they think that we are going to get everything back! Even if we have to wait for a thousand years.


I would wait for even longer! :lol:
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Postby Christine Toskos » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:35 am

It is treason if you want partition. It is treason if you want the Turkish invading army to stay on our island. It is treason for Turkish settlers to remain in Greek Cypriot homes! It is treason to serve in the invading Turkish army. It is treason not to allow the Greeks to return to their own homes. It is treason to go to Turkish run schools who teach hate and intolerance.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:58 am

They do, they think that we are going to get everything back! Even if we have to wait for a thousand years.


The illusion is by those who think that the balance of power never changes.

We have been under worst conditions for most parts of our history and we endured. At least today 2/3rds of Cyprus are free, and de-jure we own the whole island. Cyprus is an EU and a UN member. We are in a much better position to continue our struggle for freedom than we were 100, 200 or 500 years ago.
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Postby Christine Toskos » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:36 pm

Cyprus will be freed and Turkey will still not be in the EU or probably in NATO. I read in yesterday's paper the terrorist in New York last week were tied to terrorist groups not only in Pakistan but in Turkey. Taliban is strongly supported in Turkey and Egypt.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:48 pm

Piratis wrote:
They do, they think that we are going to get everything back! Even if we have to wait for a thousand years.


The illusion is by those who think that the balance of power never changes.

We have been under worst conditions for most parts of our history and we endured. At least today 2/3rds of Cyprus are free, and de-jure we own the whole island. Cyprus is an EU and a UN member. We are in a much better position to continue our struggle for freedom than we were 100, 200 or 500 years ago.


We have given up 63% of the island...37% suits us just fine we will do everything within our power to keep it forever because of egg heads like you.
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Postby Christine Toskos » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:46 pm

I have a better. We give yo 100% of Turkmenistan. 1-2-3- Get out of my house.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:23 am

Christine Toskos wrote:I have a better. We give yo 100% of Turkmenistan. 1-2-3- Get out of my house.


Turkmenistan is not yours to give...we are happy with 37% of our homeland...you can be greedy and have 63% no more.
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