Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Papantreou won, it seems, the debate last night. Karamanlis accused Papandreou for supporting the Annan Plan but then Papandreou revealed that Karamanlis also accepted the Plan at the leaders' council but then, when some of his mates in his party told him off he backed down,

Karamanlis just kept quite. Never said a word after this.

The official stance from Greece was that they were to support the decision of the Cypriot people which overwhelmingly rejected the biased plan...

[insan]

Both major parties, as well as some of the smaller ones that could form government alliances, are in agreement- Turkey must fulfill all its obligations towards the EU for the accession process to proceed and that the solution in Cyprus must be a viable and workable BBF. So the election outcome will not affect policy.

What remains stable is Greece's arms length approach to Cyprus. Greeks are careful about being sucked into a Cyprus morass yet again.

You need to understand why exactly Greece is remaining out of Cypriot affairs.

It would suit Turkish interests if Greece were to play a more 'active' role as a Guarantor Power, so that Turkey can further insist on maintaining this treaty which is against Cypriot interests...

Greece is doing the right thing. As long as the current RoC policy is passive and in favor of a negotiating settlement, Greece needs to stay out. If the RoC wants to up the ante to something not so passive, then obviously Greece will get involved militarily if need be.

So it all depends on Cyprus, and for the time being Greece is in no position to meddle in Cypriot affairs like Turkey does. It would be counterproductive if it did.

This is another behind-the-scenes activity of Greek-GC duo and it is well known by Turkey besides all concerned parties r well aware. With the recent arm purchases of Turkey and Greece that was associated with each other; it became clearer that Turkey and Greece instead trusting each other; percieve each other as an increasing threat. This situation, justifies only a little part of their interests in Cyprus.

As long as Turkey-Greece and TCs-GCs perceive each other as a threat to their national security and interests; no matter whether a solution is reached or not, there will always be uneasiness and tensions damaging the already weak relations of two nations and two communities, perhaps to a dangerous point.

Solution: Both parties need to stop hiding behind their fingers, be honest, cease bombarding their nations and communities with exagerrated negative propaganda, intensify bi-national and bi-communal relations without any ulterior motives to score political points over these rapproachments.

When you stop overflying into the Athens FIR without lodging flight plans, overfly Greek sovereign territory, and withdraw from Cyprus, then perhaps Greece may start to trust Turkey.

For now, Greece renounces the Treaty of Guarantee and this fact alone is really upsetting to Turkey because this strengthens the RoC's desire for independence without foreign intervention...an anathema to Turkey...

Those r not the main concerns of Greece and GC administration. The crux of the problem is geo-strategic interests of Greece and Turkey in Cyprus.... and we all know right wing political groups of both communities have close relations with right wing political groups of "motherlands"; respectively.





http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=A4Q ... us&f=false

[Paphitis]

Both major parties, as well as some of the smaller ones that could form government alliances, are in agreement- Turkey must fulfill all its obligations towards the EU for the accession process to proceed and that the solution in Cyprus must be a viable and workable BBF. So the election outcome will not affect policy.

What remains stable is Greece's arms length approach to Cyprus. Greeks are careful about being sucked into a Cyprus morass yet again.

You need to understand why exactly Greece is remaining out of Cypriot affairs.

It would suit Turkish interests if Greece were to play a more 'active' role as a Guarantor Power, so that Turkey can further insist on maintaining this treaty which is against Cypriot interests...

Greece is doing the right thing. As long as the current RoC policy is passive and in favor of a negotiating settlement, Greece needs to stay out. If the RoC wants to up the ante to something not so passive, then obviously Greece will get involved militarily if need be.

So it all depends on Cyprus, and for the time being Greece is in no position to meddle in Cypriot affairs like Turkey does. It would be counterproductive if it did.

This is another behind-the-scenes activity of Greek-GC duo and it is well known by Turkey besides all concerned parties r well aware. With the recent arm purchases of Turkey and Greece that was associated with each other; it became clearer that Turkey and Greece instead trusting each other; percieve each other as an increasing threat. This situation, justifies only a little part of their interests in Cyprus.

As long as Turkey-Greece and TCs-GCs perceive each other as a threat to their national security and interests; no matter whether a solution is reached or not, there will always be uneasiness and tensions damaging the already weak relations of two nations and two communities, perhaps to a dangerous point.

Solution: Both parties need to stop hiding behind their fingers, be honest, cease bombarding their nations and communities with exagerrated negative propaganda, intensify bi-national and bi-communal relations without any ulterior motives to score political points over these rapproachments.

When you stop overflying into the Athens FIR without lodging flight plans, overfly Greek sovereign territory, and withdraw from Cyprus, then perhaps Greece may start to trust Turkey.

For now, Greece renounces the Treaty of Guarantee and this fact alone is really upsetting to Turkey because this strengthens the RoC's desire for independence without foreign intervention...an anathema to Turkey...

Those r not the main concerns of Greece and GC administration. The crux of the problem is geo-strategic interests of Greece and Turkey in Cyprus.... and we all know right wing political groups of both communities have close relations with right wing political groups of "motherlands"; respectively.





http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=A4Q ... us&f=false

Greece does NOT have any geostrategic interests in Cyprus...

Greece does not consider itself to be the "motherland". Greece only supports RoC independence and its diplomatic statements are cautious as to not damage the RoC's desire for real freedom without foreign powers interfering...

Greece does not want to keep any troops in Cyprus and does not have expansionist designs against Cyprus or Turkey, and hence the island is of no strategic value to Greek interests.

Your source is outdated and biased...

[insan]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

[Paphitis]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

[insan]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

U r still denying the crystal clear facts, Bafidi... Why should Greece station more troops on Cyprus while there is a national guard of 13.000 troops with a double headed Hellenic symbol on them and 130.000 armed reservists? Would u claim that had TCs had 13.000 TC national guard and 130.000 armed resevists, Turkey would have stationed 23.000 Turkish military personel on Cyprus? Funny!

Turkey also supports demilitarization of Cyprus and by supporting Annan Plan proved that really wants demilitarization of Cyprus.

[Paphitis]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

U r still denying the crystal clear facts, Bafidi... Why should Greece station more troops on Cyprus while there is a national guard of 13.000 troops with a double headed Hellenic symbol on them and 130.000 armed reservists? Would u claim that had TCs had 13.000 TC national guard and 130.000 armed resevists, Turkey would have stationed 23.000 Turkish military personel on Cyprus? Funny!

Turkey also supports demilitarization of Cyprus and by supporting Annan Plan proved that really wants demilitarization of Cyprus.

The Cyprus National Guard is not Greek.

This defencive force belongs to Cyprus, and is clearly their to defend the island against Turkish expansionism. And having a National Guard of 13,000 Cypriot troops, is far short of the enemy they face which number some 43,000 occupation troops + 'TC Security Forces'.

And yet, Greece only has 1,000 troops of her own in Cyprus and wants to withdraw them as well, when the conditions on the ground permit it to do so. Greece does not send any more troops to have influence in Cyprus or to address the numerical imbalance.

Greece only supports the wishes of the RoC Government, and it will never compromise that Government's position by behaving like a 'Guarantor'.

[YFred]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

U r still denying the crystal clear facts, Bafidi... Why should Greece station more troops on Cyprus while there is a national guard of 13.000 troops with a double headed Hellenic symbol on them and 130.000 armed reservists? Would u claim that had TCs had 13.000 TC national guard and 130.000 armed resevists, Turkey would have stationed 23.000 Turkish military personel on Cyprus? Funny!

Turkey also supports demilitarization of Cyprus and by supporting Annan Plan proved that really wants demilitarization of Cyprus.

The Cyprus National Guard is not Greek.

This defencive force belongs to Cyprus, and is clearly their to defend the island against Turkish expansionism. And having a National Guard of 13,000 Cypriot troops, is far short of the enemy they face which number some 43,000 occupation troops + 'TC Security Forces'.

And yet, Greece only has 1,000 troops of her own in Cyprus and wants to withdraw them as well, when the conditions on the ground permit it to do so. Greece does not send any more troops to have influence in Cyprus or to address the numerical imbalance.

Greece only supports the wishes of the RoC Government, and it will never compromise that Government's position by behaving like a 'Guarantor'.

Get your facts right Stupido Bafidobullo, the top man is greek, the army is greek. Period.
Get over it because it will have to change if you want peace.

[insan]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

U r still denying the crystal clear facts, Bafidi... Why should Greece station more troops on Cyprus while there is a national guard of 13.000 troops with a double headed Hellenic symbol on them and 130.000 armed reservists? Would u claim that had TCs had 13.000 TC national guard and 130.000 armed resevists, Turkey would have stationed 23.000 Turkish military personel on Cyprus? Funny!

Turkey also supports demilitarization of Cyprus and by supporting Annan Plan proved that really wants demilitarization of Cyprus.

The Cyprus National Guard is not Greek.

This defencive force belongs to Cyprus, and is clearly their to defend the island against Turkish expansionism. And having a National Guard of 13,000 Cypriot troops, is far short of the enemy they face which number some 43,000 occupation troops + 'TC Security Forces'.

And yet, Greece only has 1,000 troops of her own in Cyprus and wants to withdraw them as well, when the conditions on the ground permit it to do so. Greece does not send any more troops to have influence in Cyprus or to address the numerical imbalance.

Greece only supports the wishes of the RoC Government, and it will never compromise that Government's position by behaving like a 'Guarantor'.

How it suits eh? Reh sneaky Bafidi. When u argue with GR, u claim that all GCs r Greeks; when u argue with me abt GC National Guard u claim that they r Cypriot forces. How funny u r reh Pafidi! not only funny but too sneaky!

[Paphitis]

I don't think the "mini super power" of Balkans does not want to increase it's importance in eyes of it's EU and NATO partners. EU's and NATO's job in Balkans have almost completed.

Now their job is with Middle East and Far East. U must be too naive to believe that Greece don't want to get benefits of using the strategic importance of Cyprus to maintain even increase it's status of being the "mini super power" of Balkans besides Middle East.

U must be to naive or too sneaky to deny that especially the GC right wingers won't do everything possible to open Greece's way to allow Greece become a "mini super power" of a larger region from Balkans to East Mediterennean and Middle East.

Such a case would be totally destructive for the interests of both TCs and Turkey and even most probably for many middle eastern countries; thus NATO and some of the EU countries.

Greece does not consider itself a 'superpower' of any kind...

Greece already is important enough for both NATO and the EU, and it does not have any misconceptions as to its stabilising role in the region.

No I am not naive at all, because if Greece wanted to increase its influence in Cyprus or the Middle East, then it would stationed troops on the island, and this is clearly not the case, despite the threat the RoC endures from 43,000 occupation troops. Instead it has an irrelevant garrison of 1,000 ELDYK troops, and it even wants to withdraw them in the interests of RoC independence without foreign interference and achieving a demilitarised island...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest what you are saying. It is quite clear that Greece's stance proves you absurdly incorrect...

U r still denying the crystal clear facts, Bafidi... Why should Greece station more troops on Cyprus while there is a national guard of 13.000 troops with a double headed Hellenic symbol on them and 130.000 armed reservists? Would u claim that had TCs had 13.000 TC national guard and 130.000 armed resevists, Turkey would have stationed 23.000 Turkish military personel on Cyprus? Funny!

Turkey also supports demilitarization of Cyprus and by supporting Annan Plan proved that really wants demilitarization of Cyprus.

The Cyprus National Guard is not Greek.

This defencive force belongs to Cyprus, and is clearly their to defend the island against Turkish expansionism. And having a National Guard of 13,000 Cypriot troops, is far short of the enemy they face which number some 43,000 occupation troops + 'TC Security Forces'.

And yet, Greece only has 1,000 troops of her own in Cyprus and wants to withdraw them as well, when the conditions on the ground permit it to do so. Greece does not send any more troops to have influence in Cyprus or to address the numerical imbalance.

Greece only supports the wishes of the RoC Government, and it will never compromise that Government's position by behaving like a 'Guarantor'.

How it suits eh? Reh sneaky Bafidi. When u argue with GR, u claim that all GCs r Greeks; when u argue with me abt GC National Guard u claim that they r Cypriot forces. How funny u r reh Pafidi! not only funny but too sneaky!

I only argue that GCs are Hellenic, but I always differentiate between Cypriots and Greeks and between Cyprus and Greece. This is something the TCs do not do.

And I don't argue with my friend GR!...we just debate and I just smash him to bits whenever he gets silly (which seems to be often atm).....