I blame it on all the so called asylum seekers that Britain has opened it's doors to!
Tony Blair should hang his head in shame for what he has done to our country! It's been proved time and time again that many of the asylum seekers are terrorists! In Scotland, they have been caught making bombs in their flats that are paid for by our government!
It is a disgrace! Send them all packing, it's the only thing to do for the sake of the UK.
I suppose I have opened the flood gates for all the politically correct do-gooders now to come back defending the scrounging asylum seekers that are ruining Britain!
London Terrorist Attacks
by cannedmoose » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:42 pm
ex_pat wrote:I blame it on all the so called asylum seekers that Britain has opened it's doors to!
Tony Blair should hang his head in shame for what he has done to our country! It's been proved time and time again that many of the asylum seekers are terrorists! In Scotland, they have been caught making bombs in their flats that are paid for by our government!
It is a disgrace! Send them all packing, it's the only thing to do for the sake of the UK.
I suppose I have opened the flood gates for all the politically correct do-gooders now to come back defending the scrounging asylum seekers that are ruining Britain!
I have never been called a 'do-gooder' but I do have a rational view of this, as opposed to yours which I would classify as reactionary and ill-informed.
I think it's quite likely that the people who carried out these attacks are here legitimately and may even be a home-grown cell. I had the displeasure of living in Luton once and a radical islamist group called al-Mahajaroun (or something like that), were always in the High Street recruiting for potential members. I remember I took a leaflet off one of them which essentially called for a holy war against the west and the establishment of an islamic state in the UK - both ridiculous notions, but these people believe it vehemently. Most of the members of this group were also born and bred in Luton, albeit within what I would label the Pakistani/Bangladeshi 'ghetto' that forms a part of the city.
It's also likely that these people would want to remain as far away from authority intrusion as possible, as did the plotters of 9/11 in the US, who were all relatively anonymous individuals whose neighbours saw no signs of what they were plotting. It's unlikely that they would even want to meet any officials, especially those involved in accommodation which could be checked at any time, or from which they could be relocated at any time.
It's easy to blame this on asylum seekers, foreigners or whoever. It's the natural nationalist response. It's also wrong to jump to such conclusions - remember the Oklahoma City bombing, many in America were quick to point the blame at foreigners, at Iran or Iraq, or whoever. In the end it turned out to be someone who was as American as apple pie. While I agree it's likely that these individuals emerge from an alien form of radical islam that has no origins in this country, some of the more radical islamists are converts, misguided converts to something that isn't really islam, but converts nonetheless. Remember Richard Reid, the famous 'shoe-bomber', a case in point.
Therefore, before you point the finger, think about it. Read the Guardian or Times rather than the Daily Star, and also before you lump all asylum seekers together, think about where some of them come from. You would obviously return people to Darfur, or North Korea, or Zimbabwe... then again, in the case of Zimbabwe, I'm guessing your definition of an asylum seeker differs to mine. I would surmise that you're all for welcoming white asylum seekers, whereas your policy is more likely to be 'if they're black, send them back'... which is pathetic.
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cannedmoose - Main Contributor
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by demetriou_74 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:59 pm
my bapou came over to england and was head of a hospital. but suppose what use are doctors??
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demetriou_74 - Regular Contributor
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by city » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:42 pm
Wasn't it you ex_pat who moved to Cyprus and now doesn't like it anymore because they cypriots are so anti-foreigners??
In my opinion they aint, but if this is your impression: get a feeling about being not welcome in a foreign country?
Its people like you, with unfounded prejudices against others, that are the worst _and_ they have caused some of the worst incidents in worlds history.
We have a saying in german: Prevent the start!
In my opinion they aint, but if this is your impression: get a feeling about being not welcome in a foreign country?
Its people like you, with unfounded prejudices against others, that are the worst _and_ they have caused some of the worst incidents in worlds history.
We have a saying in german: Prevent the start!
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city - Contributor
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by gabaston » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:04 pm
Oh big horned one
Yup I know Luton well, it is very bangla/Pakistani (btw it’s a town not a city, or have they given it city status and not informed me? - wristers).
As a turk or tc I have on occasions been taken into privy by some of these people and listened to their rhetoric, and thought what the hell are these people on?. Everything revolves around Islam and Muslim. These people can be so muslim I ask myself why they want to live in Britain. I mean all tcs in London are muslim by birth, but the only time the vast majority of us go to the mosque is sadly for funerals.
I have tried to understand the psyche of the average Islamic bangla/Pakistani, at first I put it down to being the victims of racism and paki jokes etc, but so were we, and the bubbles and the blacks yet we don’t harbour the same feelings as they do. I think much of it may be down to the fact that Pakistan was created as a state for the muslims of Colonial India. Maybe this explains somewhat their religious fervour, a nation born because of religion.
The other immigrant community that astounds me is the Hasidic jewry. ( I hope ive got that right). I mean them no disrespect whatsoever but if my farther were to dress me up like that id have thrown a fit. I suppose I sound racial but im not. Each to his belief – my assumption however is that both these muslims and jews are indoctrinated into a belief from the age of three, and I cant understand what belief or religion a three year old can have. Again it could also be said that Israel is a nation born because of religion, and so it suits them to show great respect and belief to their faith.
On enrolling my then four yr old daughter to primary school, I was asked what religion she was – I replied “ she hasn’t chosen one yet”.
Im rambling on so ill stop, the point im trying to make is sometimes religion really goes too far, and what we’ve just seen in London is a sad cruel example of religious indoctrination.
sympthathies for the bereved and those trying to find their missing loved ones.
Yup I know Luton well, it is very bangla/Pakistani (btw it’s a town not a city, or have they given it city status and not informed me? - wristers).
As a turk or tc I have on occasions been taken into privy by some of these people and listened to their rhetoric, and thought what the hell are these people on?. Everything revolves around Islam and Muslim. These people can be so muslim I ask myself why they want to live in Britain. I mean all tcs in London are muslim by birth, but the only time the vast majority of us go to the mosque is sadly for funerals.
I have tried to understand the psyche of the average Islamic bangla/Pakistani, at first I put it down to being the victims of racism and paki jokes etc, but so were we, and the bubbles and the blacks yet we don’t harbour the same feelings as they do. I think much of it may be down to the fact that Pakistan was created as a state for the muslims of Colonial India. Maybe this explains somewhat their religious fervour, a nation born because of religion.
The other immigrant community that astounds me is the Hasidic jewry. ( I hope ive got that right). I mean them no disrespect whatsoever but if my farther were to dress me up like that id have thrown a fit. I suppose I sound racial but im not. Each to his belief – my assumption however is that both these muslims and jews are indoctrinated into a belief from the age of three, and I cant understand what belief or religion a three year old can have. Again it could also be said that Israel is a nation born because of religion, and so it suits them to show great respect and belief to their faith.
On enrolling my then four yr old daughter to primary school, I was asked what religion she was – I replied “ she hasn’t chosen one yet”.
Im rambling on so ill stop, the point im trying to make is sometimes religion really goes too far, and what we’ve just seen in London is a sad cruel example of religious indoctrination.
sympthathies for the bereved and those trying to find their missing loved ones.
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by cannedmoose » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:21 pm
Gabaston, you're right, Luton isn't a city... nor does it deserve to be... I was very glad to leave.
I agree with your comments about the Pakistani/Bengali community in the town, many are radicalised and it's a product of both radical Imams at their mosque and of their generally descending from the tribal villages, rather than the more cosmopolitan towns (that's not a racist statement, it is a fact).
As for your comments about Orthodox Jews, I've also had the displeasure of living in the vicinity of Israel for 6 months (I actually lived in Gaza City, but regularly went to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). The Orthodox Jews look down on secular Jews, that is clear from both their demeanour and the way that they stare at everyone who walks past them. I once experienced walking past a bus stop in central Jerusalem and one of them actually tried to spit at me, for no reason other than I was dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and was obviously not Israeli. I'm not often scared by groups of people, but the Orthodox Jews were a group that I neither understand, nor feel comfortable in their presence. They have a way about them that deters interaction with outsiders. I also found it ironic that whilst secular Israelis have to do military service, Orthodox Jews are exempt, yet at the same time, they are the real agitators in the Israel-Palestine conflict. A number of my secular Israeli friends were crying out for peace at the time, yet the Orthodox Jews only want war until Greater Israel is regained.
Before someone says, I'm not anti-semitic in any shape or form. I've been to Yad Vashem and have the greatest respect for Judaism as a peaceful religion. Unfortunately, as with Islam, Christianity and many other religions, extremists twist the religion to suit their own ends. It's that with which I have issues.
I agree with your comments about the Pakistani/Bengali community in the town, many are radicalised and it's a product of both radical Imams at their mosque and of their generally descending from the tribal villages, rather than the more cosmopolitan towns (that's not a racist statement, it is a fact).
As for your comments about Orthodox Jews, I've also had the displeasure of living in the vicinity of Israel for 6 months (I actually lived in Gaza City, but regularly went to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). The Orthodox Jews look down on secular Jews, that is clear from both their demeanour and the way that they stare at everyone who walks past them. I once experienced walking past a bus stop in central Jerusalem and one of them actually tried to spit at me, for no reason other than I was dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and was obviously not Israeli. I'm not often scared by groups of people, but the Orthodox Jews were a group that I neither understand, nor feel comfortable in their presence. They have a way about them that deters interaction with outsiders. I also found it ironic that whilst secular Israelis have to do military service, Orthodox Jews are exempt, yet at the same time, they are the real agitators in the Israel-Palestine conflict. A number of my secular Israeli friends were crying out for peace at the time, yet the Orthodox Jews only want war until Greater Israel is regained.
Before someone says, I'm not anti-semitic in any shape or form. I've been to Yad Vashem and have the greatest respect for Judaism as a peaceful religion. Unfortunately, as with Islam, Christianity and many other religions, extremists twist the religion to suit their own ends. It's that with which I have issues.
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cannedmoose - Main Contributor
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by cannedmoose » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:24 pm
gabaston wrote:sorry ex-pat but i got to chuckle.
you sound a bit like Alf Garnet living in "bloody coon" land.
no disrespect - enjoy.
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cannedmoose - Main Contributor
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by cannedmoose » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:31 am
Bombs 'probably work of Britons'... Suggesting foreign attackers were to blame was "wishful thinking".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4668675.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4668675.stm
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