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The Cypriots and life in North London in the 70's

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

The Cypriots and life in North London in the 70's

Postby Paphitis » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:10 pm

Paphitis wrote:
"But I am eager to learn about North London in the 70s and how GCs and TCs related to each other!"


Nikitas wrote:
You ask, I will tell you. Being a rebellious type I knew more of the seedier sides of life than the official cocktail parties and such. So if you want the real stuff start a thread. Obviously pseudonyms will have to be used to avoid smearing reputations (even if undeserved).


http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=30

This is a spin off from the above thread.

I was talking about The Cypriot's book "The Cypriot" and made mention the fact that I would like to know more about life in North London and how the GCs and TCs related to each other at a time of great upheaval in Cyprus.

Then Nikitas wrote the following:
You ask, I will tell you. Being a rebellious type I knew more of the seedier sides of life than the official cocktail parties and such. So if you want the real stuff start a thread. Obviously pseudonyms will have to be used to avoid smearing reputations (even if undeserved).


So Nikitas, please tell us about the "seedier side of London.

But why would you have to use pseudonyms? Who are you protecting? When I was younger, I too have done some pretty out there things, got into lots of trouble, and then did some even crazier things (I got some stories to tell :)) ...but surely things couldn't have been that bad.... :lol:

Over to you Nikitas....

Other members that were growing up in London at the time, are also welcome to contribute.... :D
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Postby Nikitas » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:09 pm

OK here goes:

The centers for Cypriots were in north London, and essentially in a stretch from Camden Town along Camden Road past Holloway and the famous Nag's Head Pub, along Seven Sisters Road, Finsbury Park and on to Green Lanes, Harringay.

Green Lanes, the part from Manor House to Turnpike Lane station were the MAIN center of Cypriots, both Greek and Turkish. Now that I am all grown up I realise that we lived in a ghetto, but we did not call it that back then.

GCs and TCs were mixed together, often living next door to each other and there was much intermingling at the business level too. Naturally there were GC cafes and TC cafes, but TCs were regulars at our cafes as we in theirs, gambling being the major uniting factor for such close cohabitation.

Gambling was the name of the game in places like the Casanova "social club", and other like establishments along Green Lanes and Finsbury Park. Obviously the use of the title "social club" was a way to bypass the gambling laws. That is where Cypriots would go on Friday night, taking their wive's wage packets along with their own to gamble till Monday morning. Gambling was the curse of our community, probably still is.

When studying late into the night I would go to Casanova (run by Foris with the help of Pistaras) where you could have some of the best Cypriot food for one pound sterling. Sitting over a plate of poulles and pork kappama I would keep an ear open at the betting going on at the Poka table. One night I remember LK the insurance guy placing a 6000 pound bet, and he was called on it.

The vast majority of Cypriot emigrants to the UK were peasant stock. There were fewer city people. I recall that Rizokarpasso was well represented, as were villages I had never heard of while in Cyprus- like Vavatsinia, Fterihou, Vitsada and others. To be blunt, they were the kind of people we would never mix with back in the old country, but as Kazantzidis says in his songs, emigration is a geat leveller. City ladies who came to London with their university age children would work in dress factories alongside peasant girls, gone were the afternoon teas and concan soirees of Famagusta and Nicosia. Disohonorable society- atimi koinonia!

The usual progression of a young Cypriot's life in north London was to get a trade or job that his non existent qualifications would allow- ie dress machinist, presser, mechanic, chef, etc and start earning money. While single, the boys would go for Friday and Saturday night forays to Ilford Palais and other such dubious places where they would "dance" ie pick up local talent. After a few years of this there would be the inevitable proxenio and the wedding, with several dozen koumbaros. And then came the mortgage, the kids, who grew up speaking English with a smattering of Cypriot if they were lucky.

There were some people who would not or could not fit in the mold. They were the fringe of the community, often in trouble with the law, usually into soft drugs and petty crime, some progressing to major crime and they became people with a "rep" to be feared.

Going to law school in the morning and coming back to Harringay in the evening was a unique experience, a kind of exercise in social schizophrenia. On the other hand I had a first hand illustration of various crimes in the offing and it was academically fascinating to watch. One day AV, S, and F, decided that they would rob the sub post office at Saint Anne's road. They laid their plans at a corner table of the Sattelite cafe in Green Lanes, not far from the dog stadium. They piled into a car and left. What they had not taken into account was that the sub post master was an Indian, and like most Indians he had a large family.

Upon entering the post office S hit the man and then tried to do one of his acrobatic jumps over the counter. He put his weight on a pile of glossy magazines (sub post offices often were also newsagets and tobacconists). The glossy magazines slid and S fell to the floor with a thud. AV and F fell over each other and by now several Indians, hearing the postmasters call for help, poured into the small shop.

Our three would be robbers managed to beat a retreat to their car, chased by a small mob if Indian men, women and children.They sped down the road, towards Saint Anne's road police station...... Their planning had not taken into account the proximity of the police station, some 100 yards from the sub post office. They were caught naturally, and spent some months in jail not for their attempt, but for driving a stolen car into a police car.

Life in Harringady was full of such incidents which made life interesting.

Then came the dreaded July 15 1974. Green Lanes was suddenly filled with GCs standing on pavement holding transistor radios to their ears, holding newspapers, desperate for news. The police kept a discreet watch on things. Then came the invasion. The air was tense, but not one single TC was harmed. The TC shops lost their GC clientele for a few days, and then gradually everything was back to normal. Our local TC greengrocer was as busy if not busier.

Those are some of the memories from the ghetto. I wonder what others remember from those days.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:42 pm

Thanks Nikitas for that very interesting description of "The Ghetto" in the 70s...

It would be interesting to hear from other members as well....

Perhaps BillC, Oracle, Miltiades, The Cypriot and co can also add to this thread their experiences as well.

As you know, in the 70s I was very young, but I could add some second hand information from my parents, particularly from my father who migrated to Australia in 1954, about his experiences in Oz and compare them to what Nikitas portrayed above. It is a bit different, but there are some similarities, but I won't be able to offer the detail as Nikitas did, because as I said it is all second hand and it was not I that experienced the hardships he did.

However, in Oz, there was much less interaction with TCs, as there were not as many as in London.
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Postby bill cobbett » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:45 pm

Gosh, those were the days, eh N?

We never lived in Haringey/Green Lanes but our late Grandfather would often drive us up there in the early '60s for an outing, a treat as it were, to the greengrocers and delicatessens there.

Grandad's demise was the Haringey Dog Stadium that N refers to. Whenever he wasn't home of an evening our equally late grandmum would say (and I remember this as if it were only yesterday) that ...." ebiyen stous sheelous" ... (he's gone to the dogs !!!).

As for kafenia or gambling dens in London at the time a closer relative used to frequent those over in the West End (we didn't live terribly far from there) in places like the aptly named Greek Street where cards rather
than the coffee were the attraction and of course as these haunts were close to a seedy Soho, there were other pass-times for those who had made a killing at the tables.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:01 pm

bill cobbett wrote:Gosh, those were the days, eh N?

We never lived in Haringey/Green Lanes but our late Grandfather would often drive us up there in the early '60s for an outing, a treat as it were, to the greengrocers and delicatessens there.

Grandad's demise was the Haringey Dog Stadium that N refers to. Whenever he wasn't home of an evening our equally late grandmum would say (and I remember this as if it were only yesterday) that ...." ebiyen stous sheelous" ... (he's gone to the dogs !!!).

As for kafenia or gambling dens in London at the time a closer relative used to frequent those over in the West End (we didn't live terribly far from there) in places like the aptly named Greek Street where cards rather
than the coffee were the attraction and of course as these haunts were close to a seedy Soho, there were other pass-times for those who had made a killing at the tables.


I went there once and hated the place. Much preferred Hackney and Walthamstow dogs. Sorry, nothing to do with this topic - I moved into Hackney in 1979 but in those days probably could not even have shown you where Cyprus was on a map - but couldn't resist bringing that up.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:09 pm

Nikitas that is such an interesting account. I was too young and over-protected in the 70's so my memories are boringly school-girl-ish. The 80's are more memorable.

But, I do remember regularly going to the Cinema at "The Angel" with my TC girl-friend on Saturday afternoons when they used to show Elvis films. I had to be home by 6 pm or my mum was out walking back and forth to look for me. This would have been 1973 to 1974. We used to spend hours round each other's house playing Elvis albums. But her older sister and brothers never used to speak to me and they all spoke Turkish when I was round their house ....

My other TC girl-friend was a neighbour and she had older sisters who also were very unfriendly, although the TC parents were friendly with my mum and dad.

Before 1974, I only remember one racist situation at school. Most of us GC girls stuck together as a group but I was inseparable from my TC best friend who consequently stuck with us GC girls (although I know now, she was unwelcome by some of the GC girls and they only tolerated her for my sake). One TC girl, from what must have been a TC group, kept "teasing" us and when it got too nasty, I ended up in a punch-up with her, for which she was expelled. So I guess she started it! :lol:

After 1974, my TC best friend started wearing "Baby Cyprus belongs to Mama Turkey" paraphernalia (instead of Elvis gear) and we ended up in a punch up too ... for which she was suspended. So, I guess she started it, too! :lol:

At Uni, the Hellenic society "tolerated" me as a Cypriot and the disparate GCs (without a society of their own) chided me for going around with "Indians" .... We're into the 80's now, and it gets too hot for further revelations. 8)
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Postby yialousa1971 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:15 pm

From the horses mouth as they say not The Cypriot's arse, see below.

Greek Cypriot Diaspora













8) The real Cypriots. 8)
Last edited by yialousa1971 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby bluelagoon33 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:17 pm

No one ever mentioned string fellows!

If anyone want to heat what it was like on the late 80s -early 90s let me know.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:23 pm

bluelagoon33 wrote:No one ever mentioned string fellows!

If anyone want to heat what it was like on the late 80s -early 90s let me know.


Start another thread (or two) for those decades .... :D
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Postby eleni » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:31 pm

Actually there were a couple of very good disco's in Greek Street, I met my husband in The Pit Stop may 1974
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