Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Me Ed

You really need to consider the counter argument ...

If you are under attack you have to fight back and thats what the GCs are doing fighting back to protect their property from the onslaught of TCs actions prior to agreing a solution, which in reality reveals that the TCs intentions to find a solution were never sincere.

The only way they can get back their property rights is to apply pressure on their leaders to find an overall solution without which they can take as many people to court as they wish it will not solve anything, in fact it has the opposite effect delays the solution finding process as opnions harden when they question the sincerity of the other side. Shoud TC also start taking the "RoC" to court for what happen in 1963? some cases have been filed but this is nowhere near the real potential.

The TCs should not be selling off GC property prior to agreeing a solution, if that what the solution allows. What ever way you put it - it's just plain wrong.

Its called economics, if you do not allow the economy in the north to develop to its full potential and stiffle it under inhumane embargoes then it will develop in areas where ti will flourish eg selling of land, casinos etc. Ease the embargoes allow us to develop tourism and other areas that will not include selling GC land to foreigners. Otherwise thispratice will continue, you have been sucessful in scaring fo the EU buyers but you cannot stop economics, now new money is arriveing names Russians Israelis and Arabs. You are really shooting yourselves in the foot.

Politics aside, there are deep moral and ethical considerations when looking at the Orams case.

They are just escape goats to scare of the EU buyers, Canodounas the lawyer admits this, its was a made to measure case purely for that reason. It has worked but only as far as current buyers arre not from the EU but from a potential of Russians Israeli and Arabs.

few years ago, my parents visited their property in Agios Epiktitos and it was occupied by a Turkish settler - they had a coffee, all very civilised and we won't be taking them to court.

However, if it was occupied by an ex-pat claiming it was theirs and theirs to leave to their childern in their will, believe you me we would have used the full weight of European law to get them out.

Thats your right where it will get you is another matter it will no nearer to an overall solution these only acting as more ammunition for those of us who believe we cannot agree a solution.

Its very simple, if you don't want to fall foul of European law - stop selling GC property.

Many have taken the risk and are willing to fight back, the only way to get over this is to agree a comprehensive solution, the route the GCs appear to want to take spells out exactly they have no intention of seeking a real solution but prefer to score a few more brownie points.

[Nikitas]

AFFIX THIS FIRMLY IN YOUR BRAINS

THE PROPERTIES BELONG TO THEIR ORIGINAL OWNERS!!!!

BOTH GC AND TC OWNERS.

Ok got it? Turkey has signed the European Convention on Human Rights, which lays down that the right to property and its unfettered enjoyment is a HUMAN RIGHT.

Not the Orams, not Talat, nobody can waive human rights. If the Orams do not like it, they can go get *&%^.

[paliometoxo]

Lets hope Mr Talat does the right thing and advises the lawyers to get the Orams to drop the case and that he will personally help the Orams track down the individuals that mis-sold them the property and use the full weight of the law to get them to compensate the Orams.

in a perfect world talat would do that... but talat is going to help them try win the case and do everything in his power to make sure they dont giv e up and probably take a truck load of turkish lawyers to help them some more maybe brainstorm together

[Me Ed]

Me Ed

You really need to consider the counter argument ...

If you are under attack you have to fight back and thats what the GCs are doing fighting back to protect their property from the onslaught of TCs actions prior to agreing a solution, which in reality reveals that the TCs intentions to find a solution were never sincere.

The only way they can get back their property rights is to apply pressure on their leaders to find an overall solution without which they can take as many people to court as they wish it will not solve anything, in fact it has the opposite effect delays the solution finding process as opnions harden when they question the sincerity of the other side. Shoud TC also start taking the "RoC" to court for what happen in 1963? some cases have been filed but this is nowhere near the real potential.

The TCs should not be selling off GC property prior to agreeing a solution, if that what the solution allows. What ever way you put it - it's just plain wrong.

Its called economics, if you do not allow the economy in the north to develop to its full potential and stiffle it under inhumane embargoes then it will develop in areas where ti will flourish eg selling of land, casinos etc. Ease the embargoes allow us to develop tourism and other areas that will not include selling GC land to foreigners. Otherwise thispratice will continue, you have been sucessful in scaring fo the EU buyers but you cannot stop economics, now new money is arriveing names Russians Israelis and Arabs. You are really shooting yourselves in the foot.

Politics aside, there are deep moral and ethical considerations when looking at the Orams case.

They are just escape goats to scare of the EU buyers, Canodounas the lawyer admits this, its was a made to measure case purely for that reason. It has worked but only as far as current buyers arre not from the EU but from a potential of Russians Israeli and Arabs.

few years ago, my parents visited their property in Agios Epiktitos and it was occupied by a Turkish settler - they had a coffee, all very civilised and we won't be taking them to court.

However, if it was occupied by an ex-pat claiming it was theirs and theirs to leave to their childern in their will, believe you me we would have used the full weight of European law to get them out.

Thats your right where it will get you is another matter it will no nearer to an overall solution these only acting as more ammunition for those of us who believe we cannot agree a solution.

Its very simple, if you don't want to fall foul of European law - stop selling GC property.

Many have taken the risk and are willing to fight back, the only way to get over this is to agree a comprehensive solution, the route the GCs appear to want to take spells out exactly they have no intention of seeking a real solution but prefer to score a few more brownie points.

VP,

thanks for voicing your personal opinion on the Orams case and how you link this case with the Cyprus problem.

It's a pity that the highest court in the EU does not share your views and I'm sure they are far more qualified than you or I in these matters.

It's also a pity that the International Community does not share your view, because I'm sure if you were justified, the embargoes would have been lifted years ago and the TCs would have recieved the EU development grants.

There may be some truth in what you say about the actions of GCs hardening the resolve of the TCs, but its also true that this practice (that you call economics), is actually theft and will most definately side the international community with the RoC on this matter and damage Turkeys aspiration to join the EU.

[Viewpoint]

Me Ed

It's a pity that the highest court in the EU does not share your views and I'm sure they are far more qualified than you or I in these matters.

They maybe more qulified but I am not disputing the right of GC and TC owners, you really need to understand that with no solution in sight there is nothing you can do to get back the land in the TRNC, things carry on as they are and you continue to collect pieces of paper from the UN EU and whom ever you want, doesnt chnage the reality that without getting the TCs on board you are on a road to nowhere.

It's also a pity that the International Community does not share your view, because I'm sure if you were justified, the embargoes would have been lifted years ago and the TCs would have recieved the EU development grants.

I dont see the international community running to your aid either so maybe they are aware that its not only the TCs that are at fault and that the GCs had a lot to do with it and the current status quo. Your relecutance to find a solution camaflouged by words and no action will in time continue to backfire this will only help to ease the isolation by the EU on the TRNC the same exact body you thought would solve all your problems in your favor.

There may be some truth in what you say about the actions of GCs hardening the resolve of the TCs, but its also true that this practice (that you call economics), is actually theft and will most definately side the international community with the RoC on this matter and damage Turkeys aspiration to join the EU.

There is a lot of trust in what I say bıt GCs have a very difficult time comprehending views other than their own and the small possiblity that they are wrong on certain matters pertaining to TCs. No solution means a price and for you guys its a loss of your land plus an ever growing Turkish population with whom you have no connections, in 20 30 years tim you GCs will be begging for partition, without a solution we are fully aware of what is happening and how things will develop we have conceded to it as we know there will be no solution, have you?

[Me Ed]

Me Ed

It's a pity that the highest court in the EU does not share your views and I'm sure they are far more qualified than you or I in these matters.

They maybe more qulified but I am not disputing the right of GC and TC owners, you really need to understand that with no solution in sight there is nothing you can do to get back the land in the TRNC, things carry on as they are and you continue to collect pieces of paper from the UN EU and whom ever you want, doesnt chnage the reality that without getting the TCs on board you are on a road to nowhere.

It's also a pity that the International Community does not share your view, because I'm sure if you were justified, the embargoes would have been lifted years ago and the TCs would have recieved the EU development grants.

I dont see the international community running to your aid either so maybe they are aware that its not only the TCs that are at fault and that the GCs had a lot to do with it and the current status quo. Your relecutance to find a solution camaflouged by words and no action will in time continue to backfire this will only help to ease the isolation by the EU on the TRNC the same exact body you thought would solve all your problems in your favor.

There may be some truth in what you say about the actions of GCs hardening the resolve of the TCs, but its also true that this practice (that you call economics), is actually theft and will most definately side the international community with the RoC on this matter and damage Turkeys aspiration to join the EU.

There is a lot of trust in what I say bıt GCs have a very difficult time comprehending views other than their own and the small possiblity that they are wrong on certain matters pertaining to TCs. No solution means a price and for you guys its a loss of your land plus an ever growing Turkish population with whom you have no connections, in 20 30 years tim you GCs will be begging for partition, without a solution we are fully aware of what is happening and how things will develop we have conceded to it as we know there will be no solution, have you?

So what your basically saying is, that in the absence of a solution, that those in the north should be able to flout human rights and break international law by taking land that does not belong to them and sell it who ever they wish for profit and because GCs are challenging this, you will hold them to blackmail - two wrongs don't make a right.

The ECJ does not buy this and neither will the wider international community.

GCs already know who they are negotiating with, particularly as TCs only represent a 33% minority at best in the north, but the authorities in the north are never clear on the actual figure.

However, in the absence of a solution, GCs do not appear to generally have a problem with a TC or a Turkish settler using the property for housing, and a similar arangement exists in the south for GC refugees.

To sell land and property without the permission from the legitimate owner for nothing but profit is unacceptible and immoral in any system of law in the entire world.

[Viewpoint]

Me Ed you cannot have it both ways as long as their is no solution and the TRNC is not recognized we are not under any obligations to adhere to international law, do you see the TRNC signature on any agreements? Sue whoever you want it will not effect the TRNC nor will it get one inch of land returned to the GCs, the only way to do that is find a comprehensive solution, which it looks like will never materialize as the chasm is just to wide to bridge, nor do the Cypriots on both sides of the divide have the vision, desire or capacity to agree on major issues.

You are to wrapped up in text book theories and collecting pieces of paper victories from the EU UN ECHR ECJ when the realities stare you in the face its not those decision or ruling that will resolve your problems its the TCs, you say we blackmail you by selling of GC land when in fact you are not taking in what I am telling you, you are doing it to yourselves by ensuring the embargoes stay in place, ease those allow the economy to develop and no will sell off GC land, continue with the same mentality and in 30 40 years time there will be nothing to return and loads of new generation TCs arrived from Turkey settled in Cyprus demanding a share in any unificiation as I said you will be the ones begging for partition.

[Christine Toskos]

Not one country will ever recognize TRC because it is not a legal country. How can anyone in their right minds believe what the evil barbaric Turks did on the Greek island of Cyprus as legal? If the situation was reverse would you be singing the same song? If Greeks invaded Turkey? Force 1/3 of the Turks out of their land and called it GRT would you not be screaming against it? So why does it surprise you we Greeks want Turkey out of our lands for good. Tell me when the Kurds win their independence from the Turks what would you do?

[Christine Toskos]

Viewpoint:

Why do Turks hate Greeks so much? Why do they want to kill all of us? Why do Turks not go into Germany and invade and kill their people. Why don't they steal their land? There are more Turks in Germany than all of Cyprus. Germany belongs to the Turks! Germany Turks are being killed by Christians there everyday. Turkey should send their army and save their Turks there! But, why not? Oh, Germany is a separate country? Why isn't Cyprus a separate country? o

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint:

Why do Turks hate Greeks so much? Why do they want to kill all of us? Why do Turks not go into Germany and invade and kill their people. Why don't they steal their land? There are more Turks in Germany than all of Cyprus. Germany belongs to the Turks! Germany Turks are being killed by Christians there everyday. Turkey should send their army and save their Turks there! But, why not? Oh, Germany is a separate country? Why isn't Cyprus a separate country? o

You are so naive, how old are you exactly? You cannot compare the Turks living in Germany with the TCs living on this island. We havejust as much right to live rule and enjoy this island independently from any factors that wish to chnace the balance. You really have to look into yourself and understand that the current situation in Cyprus is also your fault and that it is becuase of people like you who in past claimed Cyprus is Greek that caused the bomb to explode in your faces. Cyprus is neither Greek or Turkish it is Cypriot and was not meant to be gifted to Greece, if you continue with the warped mentality that caused division this will only serve as a clear reason not to unite as you confirm that GCs have not chnaged and that they are not to be trusted.