Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"I personally witnessed the terror TCs showed in their faces while escaping from eoka and I will never forget it. "

Aye, I can empathise with that sentiment. I have felt it directly too, in the summer of 1958 when we were attacked in central Nicosia. It is a strange feeling to know that people you do not know, whom you have never met, are coming to attack you and try to kill you. It is a shocking feeling that goes beyond fear.

What is undisputed since the big man has given us the details is that the spark that provoked the attacks was lit by himself with that silly "bomb" at the Turkish information office.

And we come back to the his personal animosity for Greeks in general, not just GCs. Something must have happened to give him such an inferiority complex.

[Oracle]

I'm aware of that all Turkish speaking people including me have mixed blood of various nations.

You are a racist for thinking such a thing (mixed-blood) makes any difference. You hope by saying that, you can excuse your unique Turk-inspired barbaric behaviour.

[insan]

I'm aware of that all Turkish speaking people including me have mixed blood of various nations.

You are a racist for thinking such a thing (mixed-blood) makes any difference. You hope by saying that, you can excuse your unique Turk-inspired barbaric behaviour.

R u a bozo or what! It's irrelevant what u say! but keep spewing out all ur guts, u will be cleansed in the end...

[Piratis]

The article posted by Tim sums up the facts about that decade and the reasons why the conflict started. Nobody denies that during the inter-communal conflict the GCs gave as much as they took, but also nobody can convincingly deny what caused and who started the conflicts. The fact is that the foreign Imperialists (first British, then Turks) used the TC minority on the island turning them against the majority in order to apply their usual divide and rule tactics that would allow them to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

When they fail to blame GCs for starting the conflict, some people like Zan come and say something in the lines of "GCs wanted Enosis, so everything we did was justified".

What Zan forgets is that a territory under Colonial rule had every right for self-determination and one of the perfectly legitimate options to choose from is "integration into an independent State"
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Being part of the Greek Republic would violate none of the human or other rights of the TC minority in Cyprus. How could it be OK for Cyprus to be part of some foreign empire (British, Ottoman etc) imposed on Cypriots by force and with Cypriots being mere subjects of this foreign empire, and not OK for Cyprus to be part of a Republic which Cypriots themeslves democratically choose to belong and where Cypriots would be equal citizens?

Of course it is perfectly OK which is why it was a legitimate right of the Cypriot people. GCs, TCs and all other Cypriots would continue to live in Cyprus like before, but this time instead of being part of some British or Ottoman empire we would be part of the Republic of Greece.

Zan now is trying to tell us that because we dared to demand our legitimate right they were excused to collaborate with the foreign Imperialists, attack us and start the inter-communal conflict and demand that we should be annihilated from half of our island to make place for some artificially created "Turkish State" created on land stolen from us. All these CRIMES are justified according to Zan because we dared to ask for our legitimate rights! And remember, all these happened in the 1950s and they were the reason of the conflict.

Zan reminds me of those Ottomans who also found it "justified" to attack and murder innocent Cypriots just because those Cypriots dared to ask for their freedom.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

You can all imagine the "Ottoman Zan" of that time saying something like "Ok, we killed them. But it is their fault because they wanted ENOSIS. We had no other option"

"Ensois" is not a crime or a dirty word Zan. It was a legitimate right which has been denied to us by foreign Imperialists who used you as their puppets to get what they want from our island.

[wyoming cowboy]

I have often wondered about that myself, totally against his Greek cyp compatriots even before 64, i think he was a lawyer who prosecuted eola members, for the British and after that i think he was exiled by Makarios along with Grivas, but was caught coming back...Never once have i heard this man murmur one sympathetic word for Greek cyps, Clerides who is of the same era as denktash usually and often referred to Turk cyps in a empathetic way

Denktash, like Makarios, was a driven man. It is worth investigating what drives a man like that to convert his personal passion into a tragedy for his community. Makarios is easy, he was a monk, something which is evident in all his life and actions. Denktash was a man of the world, a lawyer but it is easy to see a virulent anti Greek sentiment in his actions and his statements. This must come from some event or circumstance. Anyone have any info?

[denizaksulu]

The article posted by Tim sums up the facts about that decade and the reasons why the conflict started. Nobody denies that during the inter-communal conflict the GCs gave as much as they took, but also nobody can convincingly deny what caused and who started the conflicts. The fact is that the foreign Imperialists (first British, then Turks) used the TC minority on the island turning them against the majority in order to apply their usual divide and rule tactics that would allow them to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

When they fail to blame GCs for starting the conflict, some people like Zan come and say something in the lines of "GCs wanted Enosis, so everything we did was justified".

What Zan forgets is that a territory under Colonial rule had every right for self-determination and one of the perfectly legitimate options to choose from is "integration into an independent State"
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Being part of the Greek Republic would violate none of the human or other rights of the TC minority in Cyprus. How could it be OK for Cyprus to be part of some foreign empire (British, Ottoman etc) imposed on Cypriots by force and with Cypriots being mere subjects of this foreign empire, and not OK for Cyprus to be part of a Republic which Cypriots themeslves democratically choose to belong and where Cypriots would be equal citizens?

Of course it is perfectly OK which is why it was a legitimate right of the Cypriot people. GCs, TCs and all other Cypriots would continue to live in Cyprus like before, but this time instead of being part of some British or Ottoman empire we would be part of the Republic of Greece.

Zan now is trying to tell us that because we dared to demand our legitimate right they were excused to collaborate with the foreign Imperialists, attack us and start the inter-communal conflict and demand that we should be annihilated from half of our island to make place for some artificially created "Turkish State" created on land stolen from us. All these CRIMES are justified according to Zan because we dared to ask for our legitimate rights! And remember, all these happened in the 1950s and they were the reason of the conflict.

Zan reminds me of those Ottomans who also found it "justified" to attack and murder innocent Cypriots just because those Cypriots dared to ask for their freedom.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

You can all imagine the "Ottoman Zan" of that time saying something like "Ok, we killed them. But it is their fault because they wanted ENOSIS. We had no other option"

"Ensois" is not a crime or a dirty word Zan. It was a legitimate right which has been denied to us by foreign Imperialists who used you as their puppets to get what they want from our island.

Pratis,

You keep on referring to the 1821 Insurrection/war of independence, and the executons of the bishops etc in Cyprus. As far as the Ottoman authorities were concerned, the Cypriots executed were subjects of the Ottomans, hence Ottomans themselves, and had behaved in a treasonous manner by arranging the sending monies, arms and men. That was the punishment for treason. Has they minded their own business.............things would be different. It was pan-Hellenism that caused their death. Its the same as some GC forumers calling TC's traitorous to the Cyprus Republic because they did not fight against the Turkish Army in 1974.

Get a life and be careful when posting repetitious rubish.

Nothing to do with Kavaoglu's article btw.

[Viewpoint]

Denktash, like Makarios, was a driven man. It is worth investigating what drives a man like that to convert his personal passion into a tragedy for his community. Makarios is easy, he was a monk, something which is evident in all his life and actions. Denktash was a man of the world, a lawyer but it is easy to see a virulent anti Greek sentiment in his actions and his statements. This must come from some event or circumstance. Anyone have any info?

If a man was made since the age of 5, to sing every morning "how happy he is to be a Turk" and "one Turk equals the whole world" -slogans which his father in the mid of his fuddle uttered, what else would you have expected him to have become?

And whats your excuse?

excuse to what?

For hating TCs?

You do not need me to hate you! You hate yourselves enough! I heard you are erecting another huge statue in Nicosia, of Lala Mustafa this time! When is Attila the Hun’s turn going to be?

Kifeas the difference between us is that we know we are donkeys and are comfortable in our skins, you GCs still think you are a race horse but in reality you are a donkey.

[Tim Drayton]

Isn't it strange that Kavazoğlu didn't mention just a single word abt EOKA that was just another secret organization funded by Americans? By not mentioning just a single word abt EOKA and it's activities; he made his article sound as written by a pro-EOKA journalist/spy?

It seems like Kavazoğlu ignored the activities of EOKA bcz he thought EOKA had nothing to do with the formation of TMT. Do u agree with Kavazoğlu that EOKA has no role on foundation of TMT and it's activities?

I'll go step by step... there r a lot of other aspects of theis article I'd like to question.

One factor to bear in mind is that Kavazoğlu, as a member of the AKEL cnetral committee, had to toe the party line in everything he said and wrote. It is unfortunate that AKEL made some grave errors and adopted some questionable positions which alienated Turkish Cypriots from it. I think that if at the time there had been a powerful bicommunal left-wing organisation on the ground with strong representation in the Turkish Cypriot community, the fascist TMT would have faced a stiffer task in imposing dictatotiral rule over the community. Let us not forget, though, that one of the first targets of the TMT was the trade union movement, probably the one area in Cyprus in which there existed genuine bicommunal solidarity. As you know, following the attempted assasination of Ahmet Sadi and the successful assisination of Fazıl Önder in 1958, Turkish Cypriots were coerced through a campaign of terror into resigning from the PEO trade union movement. The TMT knew that it had to destroy this kind of bicommunal solidarity if it was to achieve its long term goals.

[Kifeas]

Denktash, like Makarios, was a driven man. It is worth investigating what drives a man like that to convert his personal passion into a tragedy for his community. Makarios is easy, he was a monk, something which is evident in all his life and actions. Denktash was a man of the world, a lawyer but it is easy to see a virulent anti Greek sentiment in his actions and his statements. This must come from some event or circumstance. Anyone have any info?

If a man was made since the age of 5, to sing every morning "how happy he is to be a Turk" and "one Turk equals the whole world" -slogans which his father in the mid of his fuddle uttered, what else would you have expected him to have become?

And whats your excuse?

excuse to what?

For hating TCs?

You do not need me to hate you! You hate yourselves enough! I heard you are erecting another huge statue in Nicosia, of Lala Mustafa this time! When is Attila the Hun’s turn going to be?

Kifeas the difference between us is that we know we are donkeys and are comfortable in our skins, you GCs still think you are a race horse but in reality you are a donkey.

Donkey is a very useful animal that served humanity for centuries like no other. You are doing an injustice to the poor fellow to compare it with you. More like an Ostrich you look to me.

[Piratis]

The article posted by Tim sums up the facts about that decade and the reasons why the conflict started. Nobody denies that during the inter-communal conflict the GCs gave as much as they took, but also nobody can convincingly deny what caused and who started the conflicts. The fact is that the foreign Imperialists (first British, then Turks) used the TC minority on the island turning them against the majority in order to apply their usual divide and rule tactics that would allow them to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

When they fail to blame GCs for starting the conflict, some people like Zan come and say something in the lines of "GCs wanted Enosis, so everything we did was justified".

What Zan forgets is that a territory under Colonial rule had every right for self-determination and one of the perfectly legitimate options to choose from is "integration into an independent State"
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

Being part of the Greek Republic would violate none of the human or other rights of the TC minority in Cyprus. How could it be OK for Cyprus to be part of some foreign empire (British, Ottoman etc) imposed on Cypriots by force and with Cypriots being mere subjects of this foreign empire, and not OK for Cyprus to be part of a Republic which Cypriots themeslves democratically choose to belong and where Cypriots would be equal citizens?

Of course it is perfectly OK which is why it was a legitimate right of the Cypriot people. GCs, TCs and all other Cypriots would continue to live in Cyprus like before, but this time instead of being part of some British or Ottoman empire we would be part of the Republic of Greece.

Zan now is trying to tell us that because we dared to demand our legitimate right they were excused to collaborate with the foreign Imperialists, attack us and start the inter-communal conflict and demand that we should be annihilated from half of our island to make place for some artificially created "Turkish State" created on land stolen from us. All these CRIMES are justified according to Zan because we dared to ask for our legitimate rights! And remember, all these happened in the 1950s and they were the reason of the conflict.

Zan reminds me of those Ottomans who also found it "justified" to attack and murder innocent Cypriots just because those Cypriots dared to ask for their freedom.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

You can all imagine the "Ottoman Zan" of that time saying something like "Ok, we killed them. But it is their fault because they wanted ENOSIS. We had no other option"

"Ensois" is not a crime or a dirty word Zan. It was a legitimate right which has been denied to us by foreign Imperialists who used you as their puppets to get what they want from our island.

Pratis,

You keep on referring to the 1821 Insurrection/war of independence, and the executons of the bishops etc in Cyprus. As far as the Ottoman authorities were concerned, the Cypriots executed were subjects of the Ottomans, hence Ottomans themselves, and had behaved in a treasonous manner by arranging the sending monies, arms and men. That was the punishment for treason. Has they minded their own business.............things would be different. It was pan-Hellenism that caused their death. Its the same as some GC forumers calling TC's traitorous to the Cyprus Republic because they did not fight against the Turkish Army in 1974.

Get a life and be careful when posting repetitious rubish.

Nothing to do with Kavaoglu's article btw.

So Cyprus is not the the business of Cypriots but the business of some foreign rulers? And today, 2009, you still believe that it is OK for people to be subjects of some foreign empire and that those foreigners have the right to punish the Cypriot people for daring to ask for their freedom?

Have you not heard of things like Human Rights, Decolonization and all the principles on which the UN was founded?

1821 or 1958 or 2009, for some of you is all the same apparently. If you don't change that Ottoman mentality then there will not be a solution. Cyprus is our business and we have every right to decide the destiny of our own island in a democratic way. Turkey, Britain and any other foreign oppressors should have absolutely no say in our island. You can be equal citizens with the 100% of your human and democratic rights and your ethnic minority can get what every other ethnic minority in every other democratic country gets. Nothing more and nothing less. This is the one and only solution and we are going to fight for it for as long as it takes because we are not going to accept to be subjects of any foreigners in the 21st century!