Cyprus-Forum.com

[AWE]

Insan,

Cyprus politically united with Greece? Where were you in 2004 to hear Greek politicians in the media being openy derogatory towards Cypriots. The view that there is any degree of political cooperation between Greece and Cyprus that goes beyond what is normal relations between countries is a false notion.

Just think that more Greeks visit Istanbul every year than visit Cyprus. There are more Turkish cultural events in Athens than Cypriot ones.

If there is a tendency in Greek policy towards Cyprus since 1974 it is the policy of growing aloofness, not increasing closeness.

If Greece had projected its rights as a guarantor power things might have been different. Unfortunately Greece considers that it has rid itself of the Cyprus issue. It is not going to let itself be trapped again.

Nikitas, I'm not accusing Greece and GC administration(especially right wingers) politically cooperating for their common national interests. Only knowing that Greece helped(blackmailed EU countries)in order the so-called RoC to be accepted as an EU member that we all know motives behind it; is enough for me to prove GCs and Greece have a lot of common national interests that politically unite them. It was only Greece that blackmailed EU countries regarding the EU accession of the so-called RoC.

Sorry Nikitas but if u claim Greece has no interests in Cyprus while even Britain has; I can comfortably consider u either a blind or an illiterate person. Moreover, i can comfortably claim that Greece must be too stupid not to have any interests in Cyprus while Brits, Turkey, US and EU have...

Greece blackmailed the EU in order to be rid of the Cyprus problem, in particular nationalist demagogues in Cyprus and Greece brining up Pan-Hellenic solidarity as a reason for Greece to not deal or work with Turkey, so by blackmailing the EU it has passed the buck to the EU and Greek politicians can now say "oh the Cyprus Problem? That is now with the EU who can be so much more effective then just Greece" or something similar - this was done for Greek self-interest not supporting Cyprus.

[insan]

Greece has no interests in Cyprus. It is Cyprus that has interests to be united with Greece, since in that way we can protect our island better from foreign invaders. It is for the same reason we united with EU. It is our island so we can unite it with whomever we want.

You still didn't tell me Insan. What is so special with TCs that while they are just the 18% of the population they can not accept what they really are: a minority? Why the same is not the case with the Turks of Rhodes or the Greek mainland, the Turks in Bulgaria or the Greeks in Turkey?

Greeks were a minority in Ottoman Empire but the foreign powers which u complain abt a lot; supported Greeks and they established their own state... When basing it on ur logic.

[insan]

Insan,

Cyprus politically united with Greece? Where were you in 2004 to hear Greek politicians in the media being openy derogatory towards Cypriots. The view that there is any degree of political cooperation between Greece and Cyprus that goes beyond what is normal relations between countries is a false notion.

Just think that more Greeks visit Istanbul every year than visit Cyprus. There are more Turkish cultural events in Athens than Cypriot ones.

If there is a tendency in Greek policy towards Cyprus since 1974 it is the policy of growing aloofness, not increasing closeness.

If Greece had projected its rights as a guarantor power things might have been different. Unfortunately Greece considers that it has rid itself of the Cyprus issue. It is not going to let itself be trapped again.

Nikitas, I'm not accusing Greece and GC administration(especially right wingers) politically cooperating for their common national interests. Only knowing that Greece helped(blackmailed EU countries)in order the so-called RoC to be accepted as an EU member that we all know motives behind it; is enough for me to prove GCs and Greece have a lot of common national interests that politically unite them. It was only Greece that blackmailed EU countries regarding the EU accession of the so-called RoC.

Sorry Nikitas but if u claim Greece has no interests in Cyprus while even Britain has; I can comfortably consider u either a blind or an illiterate person. Moreover, i can comfortably claim that Greece must be too stupid not to have any interests in Cyprus while Brits, Turkey, US and EU have...

Greece blackmailed the EU in order to be rid of the Cyprus problem, in particular nationalist demagogues in Cyprus and Greece brining up Pan-Hellenic solidarity as a reason for Greece to not deal or work with Turkey, so by blackmailing the EU it has passed the buck to the EU and Greek politicians can now say "oh the Cyprus Problem? That is now with the EU who can be so much more effective then just Greece" or something similar - this was done for Greek self-interest not supporting Cyprus.

... to be more effective than just Greece or to not support? Decide...

[denizaksulu]

Deniz-

Re Kofinou. It is naive to believe that all of a sudden Grivas ordered the national guard to move against Kofinou.

The fact is that there had been sporadic shots at GC traffic going past Mari and Kofinou for some weeks before the incident.

It is also true that Grivas refused to use the army, saying that the matter was a police situation. Orders for him to move against Kofinou had to come from Athens before he reluctantly agreed to move. As far as I recall the clash resulted in 25 dead TCs and 17 GCs. The really significant outcome is that it led to the withdrawal of the Greek division and the Evros agreement. It was after that agreement that dictator Papadopoulos made his two lovers speech, likening Cyprus to a woman having two lovers, namely Greece and Turkey. I cannot find a more obscene description of double union than that one. Double union became an increasingly more prominent idea in Greece since that speech.

It was also the start of an open rift between Makarios and the dictators.

I am not denying or agreeing with the events. Above, I am interested in the details of the defence of Kophinou and Ay. Theodoros.

Yes, Kophinou was in the wrong place; straddling the Limasol-Nicosia/Larnaca main road. Allowing the policing of the main road by GC police and the Nationol Guard was tantamount to allowing the Greek control of the enclave. The rest is history. Unfortunately.

[Nikitas]

"Greeks were a minority in Ottoman Empire "

So were the Serbs, Bulgarians, Bosnians and all subject people of the Ottomans. And the western powers helped those nationalities too, in fact the ouster of Ottomans from Bulgaria was done in a most direct and humiliating manner after the excesses against the Bulgarian population.

Now as to the assertion that Greece blackmailed the EU- can anyone here please clarify exactly how Greece could have blackmailed far more powerful and influential countries like Germany, France and Britain?

The FACT which some posters do not want to accept is that Cyprus was the most succesful candidate country, meeting and exceeding the entry criteria to a greater extent than any other candidate country.

Aside from the ethnic ties with GCs exactly what are the interests of Greece in Cyprus? Can you point to any major investment project, strategic interest, military base, which Greece has in Cyprus and it needs to protect by a special arrangement?

If Greece were to take over the whole of the island, would this be an asset for Greece or a liability? Considering the added cost of having to defend an outlying island, it would most likely be a burden. Just consider that Greece, the world's first merchant marine power does NOT have a ferry service to Cyprus! It has not had one for years.

We have an election campaign going on in Greece right now. The issue of Cyprus does not feature at all in the election campaign, because Cyprus is not an issue. George Papandreou went to Cyprus for a few hours, not even a whole day, for the memorial service for Yannos Kranidiotis, the Cypriot diplomat who was the prime mover for EU entry, and that was that.

So what are these Greek interests in Cyprus that you people can see that I cannot?

[Piratis]

Greece has no interests in Cyprus. It is Cyprus that has interests to be united with Greece, since in that way we can protect our island better from foreign invaders. It is for the same reason we united with EU. It is our island so we can unite it with whomever we want.

You still didn't tell me Insan. What is so special with TCs that while they are just the 18% of the population they can not accept what they really are: a minority? Why the same is not the case with the Turks of Rhodes or the Greek mainland, the Turks in Bulgaria or the Greeks in Turkey?

Greeks were a minority in Ottoman Empire but the foreign powers which u complain abt a lot; supported Greeks and they established their own state... When basing it on ur logic.

My logic has nothing to do with empires occupying several nations.

The Greeks have always been majority in Greece (including Cyprus and all other Greek islands) even during Ottoman rule. The Ottomans were merely the foreign rulers during some relatively small period (even smaller in the case of Cyprus), nothing more.

Some small Muslim/Turkish minorities were created in most parts of the Ottoman time, and the Turkish minority that was created in Cyprus is no different at all from the Muslim/Turkish minorities in mainland Greece, other Greek islands, Bulgaria etc. So what is so special with your minority when compared with all these other Turkish minorities created in other places during Ottoman rule????

Also compare your minority with the Greeks in Turkey, or the native Americans in the USA, or the Aboriginals in Australia etc, what is so special with your minority in Cyprus when compared with all other minorities in the world? In fact if some minorities should have more rights than others, then those that should have more rights are minorities like the ones I list in this paragraph, not your minority created in our island during the oppressive Ottoman rule.

Therefore it is the demands of your minority which are abnormal. We as the majority reacted to your ridiculous demands as any other majority would react. Try making the ridiculous demands that you make here with any of your other minorities in Greece, Bulgaria, Germany etc, and lets see if the majorities of those countries will just accept for your minorities to get such gains on their expense. I also want to see how Turks would react if the Greek minority there had the demands that you have. It is not hard to imagine what the Turks would do, is it?

[Piratis]

in particular nationalist demagogues in Cyprus and Greece brining up Pan-Hellenic solidarity as a reason for Greece to not deal or work with Turkey

And according to you the occupation of 1/3rd of Cyprus is no reason at all, and the rest of Greeks should cooperate with the criminal Turks as if nothing is happening?

Cyprus is a Greek island and the ONE AND ONLY reason that Cyprus is not part of the Republic of Greece is that our legitimate rights were denied to us by foreign Imperialists in the 50s. But don't think that because you managed to keep Cyprus as a separate country that you have managed to divide our nation, because you didn't. Cyprus, as another Greek island, is part of the Greek nation, and nothing any foreigner will do will ever change this fact.

[denizaksulu]

"Greeks were a minority in Ottoman Empire "

So were the Serbs, Bulgarians, Bosnians and all subject people of the Ottomans. And the western powers helped those nationalities too, in fact the ouster of Ottomans from Bulgaria was done in a most direct and humiliating manner after the excesses against the Bulgarian population.

Now as to the assertion that Greece blackmailed the EU- can anyone here please clarify exactly how Greece could have blackmailed far more powerful and influential countries like Germany, France and Britain?

The FACT which some posters do not want to accept is that Cyprus was the most succesful candidate country, meeting and exceeding the entry criteria to a greater extent than any other candidate country.

Aside from the ethnic ties with GCs exactly what are the interests of Greece in Cyprus? Can you point to any major investment project, strategic interest, military base, which Greece has in Cyprus and it needs to protect by a special arrangement?

If Greece were to take over the whole of the island, would this be an asset for Greece or a liability? Considering the added cost of having to defend an outlying island, it would most likely be a burden. Just consider that Greece, the world's first merchant marine power does NOT have a ferry service to Cyprus! It has not had one for years.

We have an election campaign going on in Greece right now. The issue of Cyprus does not feature at all in the election campaign, because Cyprus is not an issue. George Papandreou went to Cyprus for a few hours, not even a whole day, for the memorial service for Yannos Kranidiotis, the Cypriot diplomat who was the prime mover for EU entry, and that was that.

So what are these Greek interests in Cyprus that you people can see that I cannot?

Perhaps the Otto Turks were a minority themselves among all their Christian subjects. Just thinking loud(?)

[insan]

"Greeks were a minority in Ottoman Empire "

So were the Serbs, Bulgarians, Bosnians and all subject people of the Ottomans. And the western powers helped those nationalities too, in fact the ouster of Ottomans from Bulgaria was done in a most direct and humiliating manner after the excesses against the Bulgarian population.

Now as to the assertion that Greece blackmailed the EU- can anyone here please clarify exactly how Greece could have blackmailed far more powerful and influential countries like Germany, France and Britain?

The FACT which some posters do not want to accept is that Cyprus was the most succesful candidate country, meeting and exceeding the entry criteria to a greater extent than any other candidate country.

Aside from the ethnic ties with GCs exactly what are the interests of Greece in Cyprus? Can you point to any major investment project, strategic interest, military base, which Greece has in Cyprus and it needs to protect by a special arrangement?

If Greece were to take over the whole of the island, would this be an asset for Greece or a liability? Considering the added cost of having to defend an outlying island, it would most likely be a burden. Just consider that Greece, the world's first merchant marine power does NOT have a ferry service to Cyprus! It has not had one for years.

We have an election campaign going on in Greece right now. The issue of Cyprus does not feature at all in the election campaign, because Cyprus is not an issue. George Papandreou went to Cyprus for a few hours, not even a whole day, for the memorial service for Yannos Kranidiotis, the Cypriot diplomat who was the prime mover for EU entry, and that was that.

So what are these Greek interests in Cyprus that you people can see that I cannot?

How can u dare to deny the very obvious, I really can't understand. Do u have something to hide?

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=A4Q ... q=&f=false


The European Union and the Cyprus conflict

Thomas Diez







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[Christine Toskos]

Isan: Isn't true more Turks live in Germany than in Cyprus? Isn't true many Turkish Germans are killed or raped by other Germans? Why doesn't Turkey invade Germany and misplace 1/3 of the Germany population and declare that land the Turkish Republic of Germany? It doesn't make sense! Well, that is what your country did to our Greek island of Cyprus. They invaded it. Even though not one Turkish Cypriot was ever killed nor raped they felt compel to invade us and rape our beautiful Greek women. They forced the Greeks who lived in Northern Cyprus for the last 5,000 to move or be killed and renamed it the Turkish Republic of Cyprus. Just as the TRG doesn't make sense to you. To the world of intelligent people. I guess that exempts Turks, TRC doesn't make sense. You cannot invade a country and say it belongs to you. You don't like us then leave our country. Don't conquer it and destroy it in the possess!