Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

The point here is that if a solution based on Annan plan fails it will fail only for GC and not for TC. You disagree?

And why is that? It won't fail for TCs because TCs will have their internationally approved constituent state if Annan plan fails? Or because they'll have a recognized passport even if the plan fails? Aren't these what a normal citizen supposed to have anyway? Isn't it enough that TCs have been isolated for 40 years and you ask for more now?

If the plan fails, it will fail both for TCs and GCs and this time you're right that it WILL fail for GCs as well (unlike 1963) because they won't be able to claim Republic of Cyprus as their own as they did in 1963. So, what's bothering you is the fact that the Annan plan's failure means failure for both (and this time it's for sure). You don't like the idea of not being able to represent the whole island if the plan fails.

It is crazy to say that GCs benefited from any failure. Everything would be much better for all of us if the initial agreements where better so they wouldn't fail. This is why we learn from the past and we want any new solution to be viable so it will not fail again.

Of course nobody wants the plan to fail and of course all Cypriots would have been much better off if we didn't have 1963-1974. But I still insist that the failure of RC caused more suffering to TCs than to GCs.

[PEACE]

I think what you are talking about is absurd!

Turkish Constituent state can't be a unitary state as alone ! It's only the one component of United Cyprus Republic.

If agreement fails it need to supply order again and the side who prevents this type of effort will be guilty side ! So world will apply economical and political sanctions!

If agreement fails due to the TCs' fault how can you think that Turkish Constituent State will be recognized as a unitary state and can behave freely from United Cyprus Goverment?

Turkish Constituent State hasn't got a passport but has got a citizenship ID!

Any effort to seperate the island will be blocked by the world like today.("Or annexation")

1960 Agreements failed but world still accepts Republic Of Cyprus as legal goverment the one and only!


Summary,
If order fails Turkish Constituent State won't be recognized as a unitary state but world will force us to supply order and to return United Cyprus order.

[Piratis]

And why is that? It won't fail for TCs because TCs will have their internationally approved constituent state if Annan plan fails? Or because they'll have a recognized passport even if the plan fails? Aren't these what a normal citizen supposed to have anyway?

Good that you admit it.

Your plan is clear:
1)Create a very fragile association.
2)Get our money
3)Create some problems
4)Brake up the "united" Cyprus
5)in the end you will have your independent state within EU.

the answer is: FORGET ABOUT IT

Isn't it enough that TCs have been isolated for 40 years and you ask for more now?

TCs for 30 years illegally keep stolen property. We ask for what legally belongs to us and nothing more and nothing less.

[Cyprus]

Your plan is clear:
1)Create a very fragile association.
2)Get our money
3)Create some problems
4)Brake up the "united" Cyprus
5)in the end you will have your independent state within EU.

the answer is: FORGET ABOUT IT

This is a paranoia and nothing more! I can't beleive that you can think like this.

You have lack of trust to us ! Annan Plan or another... is only a whopper.You see Turkish Cypriots as enemy so according to you they always create problems to kill you or to get your money.This shows you'll say No to every plan = You don't want a solution and you are happy from this situation!

[Piratis]

This shows I want a solid solution that will last and bring peace, unity and good life to all Cypriots.

Why do you want a separate citizenship?
Why do we have to pay what Turkey should have paid?
Why keep Cypriots so much separated?
Why Turkey to keep its troops and the right to intervene?

If you don't trust us to be with us in a truly united Cyprus, then why should we trust you???

[Cyprus]

This shows I want a solid solution that will last and bring peace, unity and good life to all Cypriots.

Why do you want a separate citizenship?
Why do we have to pay what Turkey should have paid?
Why keep Cypriots so much separated?
Why Turkey to keep its troops and the right to intervene?

If you don't trust us to be with us in a truly united Cyprus, then why should we trust you???

Turkish Constituent State citizenship is not a seperate citizenship ! Its an internal citizenship ! Important one is United Cyprus.

We don't want to be dominated by Gcs ! So we need some protective rights.Thats it!

Why Turkey to keep its troops and the right to intervene?

Beside Turkey,Greece and England has this right! Why only Turkey's right is bothering you?

Don't forget that if constitutional order don't break than noone can intervene!

On 15 July 1974 firstly Greece Junta made a coup to Cyprus goverment and broke constitutional order.So Turkey used her right ! Firstly everthing was lawfull but than it turned to occupation!

[metecyp]

Why do you want a separate citizenship?

The separate citizenship is nothing more than what they call state residency in the US, and we talked about this before. It's clearly stated in the plan that there's one Cypriot citizenship and nobody can get constituent state citizenship without being Cypriot citizen first. As you can see the plan satisfies TC fears of domination by renaming state residency to constituent citizenship, at the same time, it's stressed that there's only one Cypriot citizenship and hence GCs are assured that there are no two seperate states. This balance is consistent throughout the plan, and that's what bothers you.

Why do we have to pay what Turkey should have paid?

Expecting Turkey to pay for everything means accepting that everything happenned in Cyprus was Turkey's fault, and it's not going to work. Besides international fund was supposed to pay a significant amount.

Why keep Cypriots so much separated?

Annan plan is a step forward from today and it should be seen as a step for full union where being TC and GC doesn't matter. But until we reach to that point, we have to go through this. You can't jump from one extreme (total seperation) to another (full union).

Why Turkey to keep its troops and the right to intervene?

You said you believe in Republic of Cyprus many times, correct? According to its laws, Turkey has the right to keep 650 soldiers and intervene if necessary. So why does this bother you if you really believe in RC? 650 is much better than 40.000 if you ask me. I want total removal of all troops from the island as well, but I also realize what I can expect from the countries interested in Cyprus.

If you don't trust us to be with us in a truly united Cyprus, then why should we trust you???

It's not that we don't trust you. We want to trust you, but we have to take it step by step so we don't lose everything. Besides you don't do anything to gain our trust at the moment. For exaple, there's Euro elections in the south today, correct? There's only 1 TC candidate and no single GC party has a TC candidate. So how do you expect us to trust that we will be represented in a united Cyprus? Wasn't it that hard for a GC party to find 1 TC as a candidate?

[Piratis]

The two citizenships is just to make it easier in the future to brake away.

Expecting Turkey to pay for everything means accepting that everything happenned in Cyprus was Turkey's fault, and it's not going to work. Besides international fund was supposed to pay a significant amount.

Everything that happened in Cyprus since 1974 is Turkey's fault. If you have some claims before 74 we would gladly pay.

Annan plan is a step forward from today and it should be seen as a step for full union where being TC and GC doesn't matter. But until we reach to that point, we have to go through this. You can't jump from one extreme (total separation) to another (full union).

Annan plan didn't include any steps. It was a final solution. Bring me a plan with the "steps" and then we will talk about it.

You said you believe in Republic of Cyprus many times, correct? According to its laws, Turkey has the right to keep 650 soldiers and intervene if necessary. So why does this bother you if you really believe in RC? 650 is much better than 40.000 if you ask me. I want total removal of all troops from the island as well, but I also realize what I can expect from the countries interested in Cyprus.

Yes, I believe in Republic of Cyprus and as a citizen I want my country to move ahead and not backward! If Turkey will have the right, then I have no doubt they will create the right excuse if they ever decide to invade us again.

It's not that we don't trust you. We want to trust you, but we have to take it step by step so we don't lose everything. Besides you don't do anything to gain our trust at the moment. For example, there's Euro elections in the south today, correct? There's only 1 TC candidate and no single GC party has a TC candidate. So how do you expect us to trust that we will be represented in a united Cyprus? Wasn't it that hard for a GC party to find 1 TC as a candidate?

The Republic put ads to all TC newspapers asking from TCs to register for the elections. Very few did, you can not accuse us because of this.
Also, your leaders asked from our parties not to have TCs as candidates and Talad criticized that 1 TC that is a candidate telling him that he shouldn't participate in the EU elections. So go ask other TCs why they didn't participate, we are not the ones who stopped them.

[PEACE]

The Republic put ads to all TC newspapers asking from TCs to register for the elections. Very few did, you can not accuse us because of this.

Registration for election with newspaper forums !
If RC wanted TCs to join the elections it should accept that all Tcs who has RC identity card can vote.Registration made it hard !