Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

No, it does not indicate that... it only indicates our ancestral ties... as for would annexation of TRNC to Turkey be harmful; it depends on many factors. Why do u think it would be harmful?

Because Turkish Cypriots by and large are more European in outlook than Mainland Turks, particularly those from Anatolia. IMHO annexation will lead to large-scale Anatolian immigration, thus eventually overwhelming the Turkish Cypriot identity.

This is what is happening now.

Where is it happening? Inner walls? Or in ur visited Northern places?

[zan]

What is racist about the proposition that migrants have an influence on the culture of their host country? The degree of influence that they exert will clearly vary in direct proportion to their size as a group. If a particular group of migrants outnumbers the indigenous population by a ratio of about 4:1 then it is clear that the indigenous culture will be replaced by that of the migrants. This is not racism; it is sociology.

And Cyprus is such a stable place that a butterfly flapping its wings in Australia will upset the balance...

It's the use of the word Anantolian, spat out like poison that is getting on my nerves Tim. It's not that the "Cypriot" has not had this kind of problem before and if you give me one pure blooded nation then I will agree with you. What will hapen in Cyprus after an agreement Tim....Does Cyprus need more people...Yes! What is this...A fetish about self destruction.."I want to chose the way I go. I don't like surprises"....It's ok to have a little Pakistani tending our garden and bowing and scraping but not a Turk who has more of a foot in Cyprus.....I really am getting fed up with this snobbery from both sides.....Its ok for GCs to swell in numbers in Harringay so much so that the TC candidate is too chicken shit to say what he really thinks but not in little old Cyprus. Its ok for "Cypriots" to have gambling dens disguised as Sports clubs all over the UK but not for others to set foot n their precious land.....

This a 'wood and trees' situation. If we examine the issue at the level of individual migrants, we have to do so from a humanitarian standpoint. However, we must not fail to see the wood for the trees. The bigger picture is that Turkey controls north Cyprus (see many ECHR judgments to this effect) and has operated a conscious policy there of encouraging TC emigration and Turkish immigration to fundamentally alter the demography.

But still the mass forced immigration of TCs from the 50s onwards does not come into the equation. Maybe you should view it as a redress of balance. What about the population "Exchanges" of places like Crete all those years ago......In times of desperation shit happens. Desperate measures are taken and the results have to be accepted at some point in time.

[Tim Drayton]

No, it does not indicate that... it only indicates our ancestral ties... as for would annexation of TRNC to Turkey be harmful; it depends on many factors. Why do u think it would be harmful?

Because Turkish Cypriots by and large are more European in outlook than Mainland Turks, particularly those from Anatolia. IMHO annexation will lead to large-scale Anatolian immigration, thus eventually overwhelming the Turkish Cypriot identity.

This is what is happening now.

Where is it happening? Inner walls? Or in ur visited Northern places?

It is what I observe ... and also what I hear TCs telling me.

[zan]

No, it does not indicate that... it only indicates our ancestral ties... as for would annexation of TRNC to Turkey be harmful; it depends on many factors. Why do u think it would be harmful?

Because Turkish Cypriots by and large are more European in outlook than Mainland Turks, particularly those from Anatolia. IMHO annexation will lead to large-scale Anatolian immigration, thus eventually overwhelming the Turkish Cypriot identity.

This is what is happening now.

Where is it happening? Inner walls? Or in ur visited Northern places?

It is what I observe ... and also what I hear TCs telling me.

What were the riots about in the UK the other day Tim......I think the numbers here do not support your argument....Would you then go on Forums and quote these people????

[EricSeans]

For sure the impression I get in the north from TCs I have got to know over the years is one of sadness/anger that parts of their culture and identity are being homogenised and gradually lost. A TC from Paphos now living in the Karpass pointed this out with the Paphiot Turkish dialect he spoke (sa/sana, "for you"?) dying out with his generation as more and more Turkish TV and teaching protocols are adapted as mainstream.

Back in the early 90s before the gates had opened my friends would be waiting for me at Ledra Palace very keen to hear about life in Limassol, Baf, etc. Then as we drove north through the suburbs of Nicosia they would point out settler families by the number of children running about, clothes hanging out everywhere to dry, headscarfs, ghetto housing etc. On the one hand they looked to me and identified themselves as Cypriots and Europeans rather than Turks. On the other hand they were clear about the TR army staying until a solution. And they all hated Denktas. They considered their level of education and culture to be on a totally different level than the mainlanders.

Whether there has been a hardening of attitudes since the 2004 referenda would be interesting to find out with some decent research and sampling. Some good and accessable journalism would also help. How informed are the people really, and what proportion of the information they get is political propaganda? More media outlets should be calling the leaderships to account and demanding answers to the right questions. So many myths are peddled as fact in Cyprus.

[zan]

For sure the impression I get in the north from TCs I have got to know over the years is one of sadness/anger that parts of their culture and identity are being homogenised and gradually lost. A TC from Paphos now living in the Karpass pointed this out with the Paphiot Turkish dialect he spoke (sa/sana, "for you"?) dying out with his generation as more and more Turkish TV and teaching protocols are adapted as mainstream.

Back in the early 90s before the gates had opened my friends would be waiting for me at Ledra Palace very keen to hear about life in Limassol, Baf, etc. Then as we drove north through the suburbs of Nicosia they would point out settler families by the number of children running about, clothes hanging out everywhere to dry, headscarfs, ghetto housing etc. On the one hand they looked to me and identified themselves as Cypriots and Europeans rather than Turks. On the other hand they were clear about the TR army staying until a solution. And they all hated Denktas. They considered their level of education and culture to be on a totally different level than the mainlanders.

Whether there has been a hardening of attitudes since the 2004 referenda would be interesting to find out with some decent research and sampling. Some good and accessable journalism would also help. How informed are the people really, and what proportion of the information they get is political propaganda? More media outlets should be calling the leaderships to account and demanding answers to the right questions. So many myths are peddled as fact in Cyprus.

We have just had Virgin Media installed in our house for the first time ever and I must admit that I feel the same way about the "Americanisms" everywhere but after careful consideration I thought...So bloody what. Cultures have swept over the world in waves for ever. It is an unstoppable force and is getting faster because of technology. Look at this Forum. The spell check is even in the US form.

I also have to admit that last year I watched a program...Put on late so as not to offend ....A Jim Davidson show on which he had English people on from al over the island. I must say that it was a little bit uncomfortable because of its "Nuremberg rally" feel but also comforting to think that the English culture is not ashamed of its self and only the broadcasters were.