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Who were the Phoenicians?

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Postby insan » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:12 pm

Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Give it up Paphitis, because it’s by no accident that Cypriots and the Lebanese look so much alike and have always been so close (not just geographically close). :)


Agreed!

It is also no accident that Hellenism is the one and only surviving influence in Cyprus... :wink: So why is that so? :)

You also can't differentiate between a Greek or Cypriot, apart from dialect. And even that is not so between Cypriots and Greeks from Crete, Rhodos and Kos.


You mean like the “Hellenic” alphabet/language which came from…

Phoenician -> Cypriot - > Greek

:lol:


More accurately described as:

Phoenician -> Greek Cyprus -> rest of Greek world


A genetic study of modern Maltese poves that half of them carry Phoenician genetic identifiers and their language seems to be very close to the Lebanese language.

http://phoenicia.org/maltese.html
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Postby Oracle » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:12 pm

Get Real! wrote:On the contrary Oracle, it’s the ancient Greeks that were extinct when the Dorians overrun them! That’s why modern “Greeks” are of Slavic ancestry and not ancient Greek!

It’s by no accident that the modern “Greek” historians of the early 19th century invented a 300 year “Dark Period” immediately after the Dorian invasion/occupation during which Greek culture dwindled! What they should’ve said had they been honest was that the Mycenaeans were well and truly ROOTED! End of line. :(

However, what these phonies did in the early 19th century was to conveniently and miraculously place a bunch of Mycenaeans on Cyprus so they would establish “continuity” for their sake! :wink:

It’s one of the world’s most deceiving acts of historical manipulation that formed the nucleus of modern Greece's “Megali Idea”…


That's not true GR! That's all from your imagination.

The Greeks have a number of unique alleles which are found in the localities they are known from written records to have colonised. I posted that evidence in one of the other GR-bashing threads.

The overriding consistent phenomenon is that the Greeks have left cultural and genetic evidence all over the Mediterranean regions [plus a little further afield] and some associations, like this Phoenician one, looks now with some very basic checks, that it was not the Phoenicians which spread around Europe but the Greeks carrying some Phoenician genes from their earlier interaction (since as you pointed out, the Greeks were the first to name and identify the Phoenicians).

I wish I had more time ... :(
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Postby Get Real! » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Oracle wrote:I wish I had more time ... :(

Just hold it... :lol:
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Postby Oracle » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:21 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:I wish I had more time ... :(

Just hold it... :lol:


There's tons of loose, untied information out there produced by individual geneticists who haven't got a clue how to conduct a holistic correlation with cultural and historical artifacts and they keep drawing dumb conclusions from their own individual isolated findings without looking at the wider picture.

Someone has to put all this together ...
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Postby The Cypriot » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:38 pm

Oracle wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Oracle wrote:I wish I had more time ... :(

Just hold it... :lol:


There's tons of loose, untied information out there produced by individual geneticists who haven't got a clue how to conduct a holistic correlation with cultural and historical artifacts and they keep drawing dumb conclusions from their own individual isolated findings without looking at the wider picture.

Someone has to put all this together ...


Go on, O. You can do it. Then the whole world will be Greek!
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Re: Who were the Phoenicians?

Postby The Cypriot » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:39 pm

EPSILON wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:
EPSILON wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Piratis wrote:Who made such claim?

Yialousa, and that Tsokos girl.

There’s no such thing as “Greek Cyprus”


Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island or Greek territory.

It’s all in your head Piratis… you're imagining things.


GR, as you know everything that I say is historical facts, and nothing is based on mere imagination.

And just to be clear, Cyprus being Hellenic doesn't depend on Cyprus being part of the Republic of Greece, neither it means Cyprus should necessarily be part of Republic of Greece.

The same way that there are several Slavic states or Turkic states, there can just as easily be several Hellenic states.

For example just because in Asia Minor there is a state called "Turkey" this doesn't mean that no other state can be Turkic. In fact it doesn't even mean that Turkey is the most "authentic" Turkic state.


Do not try my friend- Many tried to reverse "genitsarous" nobody succeeded. The bigger enemy is Cyprus are not Turks (they are number 2)


No Epsilon,

No. 3 are the Turks.
No. 2 are the communists, remember?
No. 1 (in Epsilon's enemies of Cyprus charts) are, wait for it, the treacherous Cypriots themselves.
(Does someone in Athens pay you to come here and offer us these pearls of wisdom?)


i HAVE ENOUGH MONEY-I PAY MY SELVE FOR MY BLEIVES.


:roll: We're all paying for the beliefs of the likes of you...
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Re: Who were the Phoenicians?

Postby Piratis » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:49 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Piratis wrote:Who made such claim?

Yialousa, and that Tsokos girl.

There’s no such thing as “Greek Cyprus”


Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island or Greek territory.

It’s all in your head Piratis… you're imagining things.


GR, as you know everything that I say is historical facts, and nothing is based on mere imagination.

Now that’s a HUGE statement! :lol:


And just to be clear, Cyprus being Hellenic doesn't depend on Cyprus being part of the Republic of Greece, neither it means Cyprus should necessarily be part of Republic of Greece.

The same way that there are several Slavic states or Turkic states, there can just as easily be several Hellenic states.

For example just because in Asia Minor there is a state called "Turkey" this doesn't mean that no other state can be Turkic. In fact it doesn't even mean that Turkey is the most "authentic" Turkic state.

I’ll tell you what Piratis, be my guest and prove that “Cyprus is Greek”!


Greek language, Greek religion, Greek culture and most importantly a Greek identity of the vast majority of the population, now and for 1000s of years. What more proof do you want?
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Postby Simon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:24 pm

insan wrote:
Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Give it up Paphitis, because it’s by no accident that Cypriots and the Lebanese look so much alike and have always been so close (not just geographically close). :)


Agreed!

It is also no accident that Hellenism is the one and only surviving influence in Cyprus... :wink: So why is that so? :)

You also can't differentiate between a Greek or Cypriot, apart from dialect. And even that is not so between Cypriots and Greeks from Crete, Rhodos and Kos.


You mean like the “Hellenic” alphabet/language which came from…

Phoenician -> Cypriot - > Greek

:lol:


More accurately described as:

Phoenician -> Greek Cyprus -> rest of Greek world


A genetic study of modern Maltese poves that half of them carry Phoenician genetic identifiers and their language seems to be very close to the Lebanese language.

http://phoenicia.org/maltese.html


That's great insan but what has this got to do with my post? :?
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Postby Simon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:49 pm

Get Real! wrote:On the contrary Oracle, it’s the ancient Greeks that were extinct when the Dorians overrun them! That’s why modern “Greeks” are of Slavic ancestry and not ancient Greek!
It’s by no accident that the modern “Greek” historians of the early 19th century invented a 300 year “Dark Period” immediately after the Dorian invasion/occupation during which Greek culture dwindled! What they should’ve said had they been honest was that the Mycenaeans were well and truly ROOTED! End of line. :(

However, what these phonies did in the early 19th century was to conveniently and miraculously place a bunch of Mycenaeans on Cyprus so they would establish “continuity” for their sake! :wink:

It’s one of the world’s most deceiving acts of historical manipulation that formed the nucleus of modern Greece's “Megali Idea”…


GR what are you talking about? The Dorians ARE ancient Greeks. The Dorians were one of the three main tribes that made up ancient Greece. They spoke Greek. They were not Slavs! :lol:


"A Dark Age Descends upon Greece
Around 1200 BCE, Dorian Greeks -- who had been living just north of Greece and spoke a dialect different from the Mycenae Greeks -- began the first of their invasions into the Greek peninsula. They bypassed some areas but overran much of the Mycenae civilization that had spread into the central part of the Greek mainland. They looted and destroyed palaces and sent people fleeing, some eastward to Asia Minor, some southeast to nearby islands and to Cyprus.

In the mid-1100s, after decades of respite, came more Dorian invasions. In Ithaca, an island off the western coast of Greece, Mycenae Greeks made common cause with people native to the area, and there the Mycenae were able to maintain a semblance of their way of life. So too were some longtime inhabitants still on mainland Greece. The city of Athens and cities in Euboea survived, but the Dorians pushed countless Greeks to a new exodus. Legend tells of a well-organized expedition from Athens to the island of Lesbos off the coast of Asia Minor. Other migrants from Greece fled to Asia Minor and mixed with local peoples, and western Asia Minor became a mixture of peoples speaking a variety of Greek dialects.

Mycenae Greeks fled to Crete, and soon the Dorians overran that island, as people were fleeing from there to Cyprus. The Dorians moved eastward to the southwest shores of Asia Minor, island hopping by way of Melos, Thera and Rhodes. On the coast of Asia Minor they destroyed Miletus and other cities, and some Mycenae Greeks migrated from the coast of Asia Minor farther inland.

The Dorian invasions destroyed the prosperity and cohesion of Greece. There was a sharp drop in agricultural production and in population. Greek cities became villages, and writing declined and was lost. Trade between Greece and elsewhere disappeared as the Dorian Greeks had no desire for contact with foreign peoples, believing that beyond them lived only strange people and monsters. "


http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch07.htm

Here is more on the Dorians under "Ancient Greek Civilisations":

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/ ... rians.html

"In the southwest part of the island of Crete today lives
a Dorian Greek tribe. They are very tall, fair haired and have blue eyes."


http://www.sfakia-crete.com/sfakia-cret ... fakia.html

"Dorian people - any member of a major division of the ancient Greek people, distinguished by a well-marked dialect."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/169465/Dorian
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Postby yialousa1971 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:30 pm

Get Real! wrote:On the contrary Oracle, it’s the ancient Greeks that were extinct when the Dorians overrun them! That’s why modern “Greeks” are of Slavic ancestry and not ancient Greek!

It’s by no accident that the modern “Greek” historians of the early 19th century invented a 300 year “Dark Period” immediately after the Dorian invasion/occupation during which Greek culture dwindled! What they should’ve said had they been honest was that the Mycenaeans were well and truly ROOTED! End of line. :(

However, what these phonies did in the early 19th century was to conveniently and miraculously place a bunch of Mycenaeans on Cyprus so they would establish “continuity” for their sake! :wink:

It’s one of the world’s most deceiving acts of historical manipulation that formed the nucleus of modern Greece's “Megali Idea”…


What are you saying GR, the Dorians were not Greek but Slavic because thats how your statement reads.

it’s the ancient Greeks that were extinct when the Dorians overrun them! That’s why modern “Greeks” are of Slavic ancestry and not ancient Greek!
:?
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