Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Yes but your culture isn't Greek. it is actually closer to the Lebanese.

I don't know much about the Lebanese. Do they speak Greek and follow the Greek Orthodox yearly traditions? Are they very different to their nearest neighbours? Perhaps they still continue some of what Alexander the Great passed on to them, also, and hence resemble us more substantially. It is a good thing...

Still, it seems to unnerve you that we have been here so many thousands of years mixing and trading with our neighbours ... whilst you Ottomans swept in as one massive orgy of destruction, in very recent history ....

[denizaksulu]

Ignorance my dear Alexis. Did travellers and indeed 'experts' not once believe that the Gypsies came from Egypt?

Those travelers did not observe some primitive tribesmen going about their business, they interacted with the locals, they discussed with them and they were TOLD they were Greeks

It is a good job that these travellers did not visit Larnaca. Had their ship landed near the local fort garrisoned by Ottoman troops and perhaps a few newcomers from Anatolia, on answering the same questions might have answered "I am an Ottoman / Turk / Musluman". Depending on the amount of touring on the island they would come up with a different answer. If it was 'touch and go' they might have said, oh yes , they speak Turkish.......................", otherwise they might say 'ah, yes they speak Greek and Turkish'.

[Omer Seyhan]

Yes but your culture isn't Greek. it is actually closer to the Lebanese.

I don't know much about the Lebanese. Do they speak Greek and follow the Greek Orthodox yearly traditions? Are they very different to their nearest neighbours? Perhaps they still continue some of what Alexander the Great passed on to them, also, and hence resemble us more substantially. It is a good thing...

Still, it seems to unnerve you that we have been here so many thousands of years mixing and trading with our neighbours ... whilst you Ottomans swept in as one massive orgy of destruction, in very recent history ....

You're absoltely right. There was indeed a ''massive orgy''

[YFred]

Ignorance my dear Alexis. Did travellers and indeed 'experts' not once believe that the Gypsies came from Egypt?

Those travelers did not observe some primitive tribesmen going about their business, they interacted with the locals, they discussed with them and they were TOLD they were Greeks

It is a good job that these travellers did not visit Larnaca. Had their ship landed near the local fort garrisoned by Ottoman troops and perhaps a few newcomers from Anatolia, on answering the same questions might have answered "I am an Ottoman / Turk / Musluman". Depending on the amount of touring on the island they would come up with a different answer. If it was 'touch and go' they might have said, oh yes , they speak Turkish.......................", otherwise they might say 'ah, yes they speak Greek and Turkish'.

D, I thought "Touch and Go" is a game called It.

[Omer Seyhan]

İ understand that but why are the Anatolians a 'mop' and not a brush?
So anything Turkish has to be negative? This is basically what I am understanding from you. Is this really your opinion?[/quote]

[alexISS]

It is a good job that these travellers did not visit Larnaca. Had their ship landed near the local fort garrisoned by Ottoman troops and perhaps a few newcomers from Anatolia, on answering the same questions might have answered "I am an Ottoman / Turk / Musluman"

I have a feeling they might have been warned about such places and avoided visiting

Depending on the amount of touring on the island they would come up with a different answer. If it was 'touch and go' they might have said, oh yes , they speak Turkish.......................", otherwise they might say 'ah, yes they speak Greek and Turkish'.

Or, being newcomers, the Ottomans were not yet considered "natives" by foreigners so they wouldn't include Turkish in the local languages

[denizaksulu]

Let me ask a general question: A road sweeper claims with prideness that he has had the same broom throughout his 30 year job. But in this time, he has fitted a new brush 47 times and replaced the stick no less than 49 times. He is adamant that he is using the same brush because it shares certain characteristics with the original, but is it the same brush?

So, the owner is the same and the essence/job of the brush is intact!

But, I can see how Turks expanding into neighbouring countries should question whether they are not replacing the "brush" heads with a mop head .... thereby changing the nature of the "broom".

So anything Turkish has to be negative? This is basically what I am understanding from you. Is this really your opinion?

Well, replacing GCs (brush) with Anatolian Settlers (mop) is changing the nature of Cyprus (broom) .... wouldn't you agree?

Omer, I think your attempt at a philosophical metaphor, has swept you off your feet ....

Not laughing at you Ömer. Interesting reading. Just Oracles (borrowed ) wit. The wit GR has lost.

[denizaksulu]

The reliability of travelogues is questionable..

No more so than the Ottoman accounts of history. In fact, more reliable because they were not from "conquerors" but individual (unbiased)travellers.

In fact "travelogues" of the past are an important source of material, especially when backed up by other resources (pottery, dwellings, poetry, drama). Travelers of the past, usually the wealthy and most educated, were on a mission to report back accurately from their travels. Their reputations depended on it.

Most of our information on conditions in Africa, the impact of the slave trade, the origins of artworks, bronzes and other important relics came about from travellers who contributed to Geographic archives. It is up to us to piece them together and see how consistent they are. Some may be ditched ... but none of the ones Simon posted are at odds with other sources. So, why do you doubt them?

To date only (your) Ottoman/Turkish accounts stand out as at odds with the masses of archives from a huge sink.

What an unreputable scumbag Marco Polo must have been with all the monsters and strange people he met during his travels. He ame accross Turcs as well:lol:

[Oracle]

The ethnographic data will confirm a lot of these long-term associations with nearest neighbours. If Greeks, Lebanese, Serbs, Sicilians and Slavs share common genetic identity, that just reinforces their historical association to these lands where such groups have co-existed for millennia. Recent arrivals will stand out (like a sore thumb).

This is not something to fear ... except for those who wish to distort history for their own political ends ....

What perhaps Omer is worried about, is that you cannot cheat nature.

[Oracle]

İ understand that but why are the Anatolians a 'mop' and not a brush?
So anything Turkish has to be negative? This is basically what I am understanding from you. Is this really your opinion?

Mops have their uses ....