Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

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[metecyp]

When you say puppet master it implies that there maybe scenarios where puppets (TCs) would not like but puppet master (Turkey) still approves and that scenario becomes reality. It basically means that we are forced to accept things that is against our own wish. As I have said on the previous paragraph, first of all I do think that chances of such a scenario existing s very slim, and secondly even if it existed it would not be accepted by TCs and hence will not become reality.

Turkcyp,

I esentially agree with you that puppet-master relationship is oversimplication of what we have in the north today. I think TC-Turkey relationship is much more complex and I'm not even sure if you can accurately describe it in a phrase or sentence.

However, we cannot deny the fact that sometimes there are disagreements between Turkey and TCs. For example, the head of the army in the north is a Turk and every TC that I know says the head should be a TC. Similarly, the head of the Central Bank is a Turk and every TC is bothered by this. The police force is also controlled by the Turkish army, not the TRNC government. If we claim that TRNC is a TC state, then why can't we control our own police, our army and our central bank? There's definetely a conflict here but you would think that CTP, being in full power, would do something about them, right? Did they? No. Why? Because they cannot go against Ankara's will on vital issues. This is no secret and every TC is aware of it.

So magikthrill might be right to consider the situation in the north as master-puppet in the light of what I just described. However, when it comes to Cyprus problem, I agree with you that Turkish government cannot force a settlement on TCs so there's no master-puppet relationship here.

[turkcyp]

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[metecyp]

Blame the silent majority always. By not actively opposing to those arrangements and choosing the leaders that support those arrangekments in the past we had given a TACIT approval of their existence.

I still maintain that the relationship between Turkey and TCs on some matters kind of resembles to a master-puppet relationship, especially for someone looking from outside. You said Turkey has no gain by having a Turk as the head of the army. I don't agree. Army in the north has more power than the government on some matters so it makes sense for Turkey to maintain the control by appointing one of his own man at the head of the army.

I don't know if you remember but last hunting season, the government opened some military zones for hunting. The military, however, did not agree and even arrested some hunters for hunting in the military zone on the first day of hunting and that was it for opening the military zones for hunting. As you can see, the government could not do anything against military's wishes and in situations like these, it's much easier for a Turkish officer to say to a TC government member that they don't agree with their decision than a fellow TC officer doing the same thing.

But I agree with your silent majority argument. I think this is the biggest problem (silent majority) of TCs. Many people complain about many things but very few people do something about them.

Take opening of Lokmaci Barikati (Ledra Street crossing) as an example. Many TC shopowners have been complaining about it being not opened after more than 2 years of border openings. I think at some point they even demonstrated for its opening. But now there's no action, they're simply waiting. I sometimes hear a TC politician blaming the GC side for the delay or vice versa but nobody (on both sides) get to the bottom of the issue and inform the public about why it's been so delayed and who's responsible for it.

[magikthrill]

a bicommunal republic with certain bizonal restrictions and no turkish military presence would satisfy many TCs but this would NEVER happen because it does not satisfy Turkey.

[MicAtCyp]

Just because TCs policies had been alligned with Turkeys's policies does not mean that Turkey is the puppet master and TCs are the puppets.

Are they aligned???? Hundreds of times we ve seen Turkey "aligning you up" to what she wants. There where we could see some progress we see Turkey stepping in and distroying everything.
Two recent examples:
1.The matter of opening 2 new checkpoints in Nicosia.
2.The matter of Varoshia. (quote Sezer: I did not give such an authorisation to Talat"

[gabaston]

magik wrote

a bicommunal republic with certain bizonal restrictions and no turkish military presence would satisfy many TCs but this would NEVER happen because it does not satisfy Turkey.

well im not too sure about that magik. yes id imagine turkey would leave some troops, as we would want some protection.

Some posters are trying to suggest that tc has no say in what goes on in the north. not so - could you imaging turkeys position at un and eu if turkey did not have tc backing and consent. gc could not force that on tc and neither can turkey.

[detailer]

Just because TCs policies had been alligned with Turkeys's policies does not mean that Turkey is the puppet master and TCs are the puppets.

Are they aligned???? Hundreds of times we ve seen Turkey "aligning you up" to what she wants. There where we could see some progress we see Turkey stepping in and distroying everything.
Two recent examples:
1.The matter of opening 2 new checkpoints in Nicosia.
2.The matter of Varoshia. (quote Sezer: I did not give such an authorisation to Talat"

MitCyp,

I agree with you that TC and Turkey benefits do not always align. But given the risks of GC approaches( and the disappoinment of the pro-referandum attitude of EU), the silent majority knows that we don't have anyone but Turkey to help us. But you are right, our situation really sucks.

[turkcyp]

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[metecyp]

a bicommunal republic with certain bizonal restrictions and no turkish military presence would satisfy many TCs but this would NEVER happen because it does not satisfy Turkey.

Only if it could be that simpler magikthrill. What kind of bizonal restrictions? What kind of bicommunal republic?? The Cyprus problem is the difference between GCs and TCs in defining these terms that you so carelessly use! Besides, majority of TCs prefer a small symbolic amount of Turkish soldiers, like 650, to feel secure and this is a fact.

Metecyp wrote:
Just because TCs policies had been alligned with Turkeys's policies does not mean that Turkey is the puppet master and TCs are the puppets.

You love to disagree with me, don't you? Unfortunately, that quote wasn't mine but turkcyp's