Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

This article has nothing to do with the Lapithos mass graves.

It doesn't even allude to anything remotely connected to fanciful ideas grasped by insan in his continuing desperate attempt to excuse the Turkish regime from allowing the RoC and CMP to assess the contents of the mass grave.

The archives mentioned in this article, are probably things like proposed legislation, and such like, relating to the pre-1974 period.

If, as according to insan and brainless OP, there were hundreds of missing GCs allegedly killed by Greek or other forces pre-1974, then they would have been listed since GC relatives do not forget any missing folks.

Insan is posting the above in re3buttal of Nikitas allegations that no fighting took place between opposing forces during the coup. It has every relevance and is not denying any other killings that did take place. Oracle, dont be in denial.

Stop trying to protect insan who is trying to protect the Turkish regime!

I was referring to his posts before Nikitas (bless him for patiently illuminating you) joined in the debate (page 1)!

I'm not trying to protect this or that... I'm trying to see and show the contradictions of everything we discuss with an aim to complete the missing parts of the story. Your aim is to distort every potential evidents or pure evidents that u think would be harmful for Greek/GC national cause.

Any reference either to the Turkish or the Greek-Cypriots who went missing before the Turkish invasion would have seriously delegitimized the predominant discourse; it would have opened a Pandora‘s box, letting out all sorts of inconvenient questions (Kovras 2008:377). For example, was the Agreement of London-Zurich an end in itself or a means to a higher end (enosis)? Were the Greek Cypriot victims of EOKA – predominantly leftist – conspirators, and if not, should their memory be acknowledged? To what extent were institutions of the Republic responsible for Turkish-Cypriots who went missing in the 1960s? Were the coupists traitors, outdated ideologues, or simply unlucky conscripts serving their
12
military service at the wrong time? Was the Turkish invasion partly justified by the preceding inter and intra-communal fighting?The issue that naturally follows the attribution of blame is the development of a strategy to alter the problematic situation (prognostic framing). A widespread elite consensus in the post-1974 -- Greek-dominated -- Republic of Cyprus on the causes of the invasion facilitated a process of political learning and paved the way for a stable transition to democracy. Three fundamental strategies addressed the causes of the problem: (a) emphasizing national unity and reconciliation, as expressed through the strengthening of the institutions of the Republic to avoid the divisive experiences of the past and promote re-unification; (b) accentuating the culture of victimhood as expressed in the traumatic side-effects of the Turkish invasion (missing persons, refugees, casualties, those still in enclaves, etc) as the foundation of this new ‗invented unity‘; and finally, (c) lobbying international forums to condemn Turkey and force it to adopt a more accommodative stance.
The first seems to have been determined by the first anniversary of the coup. Although not directly referring to the missing, debates among party leaders during that session are revealing. The starkest image is provided by Glafkos Clerides (DISY), later President of the Republic, who underlined the ‗dangers‘ lurking from the ‗partisanship‘ objectives in the common struggle for the ‗survival‘ of the Republic. 18

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewconten ... s_loizides

[YFred]

This article has nothing to do with the Lapithos mass graves.

It doesn't even allude to anything remotely connected to fanciful ideas grasped by insan in his continuing desperate attempt to excuse the Turkish regime from allowing the RoC and CMP to assess the contents of the mass grave.

The archives mentioned in this article, are probably things like proposed legislation, and such like, relating to the pre-1974 period.

If, as according to insan and brainless OP, there were hundreds of missing GCs allegedly killed by Greek or other forces pre-1974, then they would have been listed since GC relatives do not forget any missing folks.

Insan is posting the above in re3buttal of Nikitas allegations that no fighting took place between opposing forces during the coup. It has every relevance and is not denying any other killings that did take place. Oracle, dont be in denial.

Stop trying to protect insan who is trying to protect the Turkish regime!

I was referring to his posts before Nikitas (bless him for patiently illuminating you) joined in the debate (page 1)!

I'm not trying to protect this or that... I'm trying to see and show the contradictions of everything we discuss with an aim to complete the missing parts of the story. Your aim is to distort every potential evidents or pure evidents that u think would be harmful for Greek/GC national cause.

Any reference either to the Turkish or the Greek-Cypriots who went missing before the Turkish invasion would have seriously delegitimized the predominant discourse; it would have opened a Pandora‘s box, letting out all sorts of inconvenient questions (Kovras 2008:377). For example, was the Agreement of London-Zurich an end in itself or a means to a higher end (enosis)? Were the Greek Cypriot victims of EOKA – predominantly leftist – conspirators, and if not, should their memory be acknowledged? To what extent were institutions of the Republic responsible for Turkish-Cypriots who went missing in the 1960s? Were the coupists traitors, outdated ideologues, or simply unlucky conscripts serving their
12
military service at the wrong time? Was the Turkish invasion partly justified by the preceding inter and intra-communal fighting?The issue that naturally follows the attribution of blame is the development of a strategy to alter the problematic situation (prognostic framing). A widespread elite consensus in the post-1974 -- Greek-dominated -- Republic of Cyprus on the causes of the invasion facilitated a process of political learning and paved the way for a stable transition to democracy. Three fundamental strategies addressed the causes of the problem: (a) emphasizing national unity and reconciliation, as expressed through the strengthening of the institutions of the Republic to avoid the divisive experiences of the past and promote re-unification; (b) accentuating the culture of victimhood as expressed in the traumatic side-effects of the Turkish invasion (missing persons, refugees, casualties, those still in enclaves, etc) as the foundation of this new ‗invented unity‘; and finally, (c) lobbying international forums to condemn Turkey and force it to adopt a more accommodative stance.
The first seems to have been determined by the first anniversary of the coup. Although not directly referring to the missing, debates among party leaders during that session are revealing. The starkest image is provided by Glafkos Clerides (DISY), later President of the Republic, who underlined the ‗dangers‘ lurking from the ‗partisanship‘ objectives in the common struggle for the ‗survival‘ of the Republic. 18

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewconten ... s_loizides

Shame on you Insan. Are you implying that our Oracle is biased in some way to the Hellenic view of the world and that Hellenism isn't centre of the universe by any chance?
Say 3 Paniamus immediately and pray for forgiveness from the goddess herself.

[halil]

Deniz,

The coup started at dawn on July 15 with simultaneous attempts against the Presidential mansion, RIK, government offices etc. Force was used against targets that were known to be defended, like the police stations, HQ in Nicosia. There were no moves against TCs at this time. The TCs of Kyrenia would have been able to see and know what was going on in the town.

After July 20, the castle was used as a defense point and when the Turkish army arrived in town the BBC news showed the dead bodies of the defenders of the castle who had ran out of ammo and charged with bayonets. There are about a dozen dead soldiers strewn around the castle gate, on July 23 if memory serves. The news clip does not support the allegation of the castle being used as a prison.

During the coup days, July 15-19, "Soft" targets, like hospitals, telephone exchanges etc, were not attacked, in most cases the local EOKA B dudes simply turned up and took control.

My father reported for work on July 15 and in the car park he was met by an EOKA B man, a lawyer, who was surprised to see him. "I thought you people here were on leave" he said. "No, we expected you idiots to come and sign our leave papers" responded my father. He was told it would be better to return home which he did.

Considering that my father had been leading prosecutor of many EOKA B men, he would have been a prime target for arrest or elimination if that was the policy of the coup people.

Nikitas, coupists were not only comprise of irregulars of EOKA-B but more than majority of GC NG(about 13.000) was also under command of Sampson. The question here, weren't there any GC communist HQs or Makarios supporter's HQs in Kyrenia...

If there were, be sure there had been armed conflagration between the pro-coup GC NG and anti-coup GC NG. Most probably there had been casualties on both sides before Turkey intervened but I'm not trying to say that their bodies were collected and burried in that alleged place.

During 1974 there was few TC living in Kyrenia as far as i know .Most of them were left the Kyrenia in 1963 events .

But i am sure before the Turkish Troops came to Cyprus there was a fighting went on Kyrenia .Because of fighting between groups kyrenia mountaines were also burning . We could see it very clearly from our village also we could here gun shoots as well .

[halil]

dp

[paliometoxo]

and still today turkey does not allow anyone to viewer the army files on the 1974 invasion.. they have much to hide

[denizaksulu]

This article has nothing to do with the Lapithos mass graves.

It doesn't even allude to anything remotely connected to fanciful ideas grasped by insan in his continuing desperate attempt to excuse the Turkish regime from allowing the RoC and CMP to assess the contents of the mass grave.

The archives mentioned in this article, are probably things like proposed legislation, and such like, relating to the pre-1974 period.

If, as according to insan and brainless OP, there were hundreds of missing GCs allegedly killed by Greek or other forces pre-1974, then they would have been listed since GC relatives do not forget any missing folks.

Insan is posting the above in re3buttal of Nikitas allegations that no fighting took place between opposing forces during the coup. It has every relevance and is not denying any other killings that did take place. Oracle, dont be in denial.

Stop trying to protect insan who is trying to protect the Turkish regime!

I was referring to his posts before Nikitas (bless him for patiently illuminating you) joined in the debate (page 1)!

Bless Nikita my ----. I am no Yianni or Nigoli. I am too special for any of that lark.

Why do you always change the goalposts when you make a mistake Oracle. No wonder the CF i dumbing down. It must be the Art attack you are coping with.

[Nikitas]

YFred poses a good question:

"an argument to not prosecute a well known murderer."

I think this was not a Cyprus only decision. In an open trial each defendant would cite orders from superiors as a defence and the buck would have to stop somewhere. There were points when the buck went across international frontiers.

Later, at the conclusion of the closed Greek Parliament sessions on the Cyprus file, it was decided to keep the file closed for reasons of public policy, national interest and "the sake of the country's international relations"

In other words opening the file would ruin Greece's relations with its allies, presumably the USA and Britain.

This was the reason that there were no prosecutions anywhere of the coup leaders or lower ranking officers like Danos. The junta leaders and some torturers were tried and convicted in Greece, but by no means all. Most never faced trial, they were simply discharged from the army.

Private prosecutions, which are hard to bring about in the Anglosaxon legal system we have in Cyprus, were started but were quashed by the Cyprus attorney general (nolle prosequi orders).

Some day these files will be open and we will be surprised at the deals that were made, by those that made them and by the things that they agreed to.

Ioannides, the silent dictator, is still alive in jail. I wish he would break his silence and explain what he meant when he smashed the phone and shouted "the bastards betrayed me" when the invasion started. What was the deal, who were the bastards?

[insan]

Nikitas wrote:

Ioannides, the silent dictator, is still alive in jail. I wish he would break his silence and explain what he meant when he smashed the phone and shouted "the bastards betrayed me" when the invasion started. What was the deal, who were the bastards?

Maybe it was his last attempt to put the blame on others. I've read his explanations and statements which he made right after 1 or 2 days of the coup in Cyprus. Unbelievably stupid and funny!