Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Where do Americans come from ? You may be a Nicosian but you are a Cypriot of Greek origin full stop, that doesnt make you Greek as in a person of Greek heritage who resides in Greece. That would mean all the English are Scandinavian and not English and the American are every origin under the sun but can never be just Americans.

"just Americans" as in 300+ million of them? I don't think that is "just". If Americans can decide that all those 300+ million of people in a region spanning 1000s of miles can be one nation, then similarly we can decide that we are "just Greeks" living in various Greek regions.

Trying to force us to be "just Cypriots" is the same as trying to force New Yorkers to be "just New Yorkers" and not Americans. Do you know how USA was created VP? Be means of union (enosis).

[Piratis]

You are Cypriot - the rest I agree with whole heartedly!

Of course we are Cypriot. And Cypriots are Greek, just like Cretans and Athenians.

no, not just like cretans and athenians. cretans and athenians are citizens of the republic of greece. cypriots are citizens of the republic of cyprus.

What makes somebody Greek is not the citizenship. Citizenship is one thing, nationality and ethnicity a whole another.

well i am talking about citizenship which cannot be overlooked. cypriots are not just like athenians/cretans because of this. and because the geostrategic interests of the political entities to which athenians and to which cypriots belong do not always overlap; which is why it's an important distinction. for example, if greece had had its way cypriots would have said 'yes' to the annan plan.

Furthermore, the only reason that Cyprus is a separate country is because this is what some foreigners imposed. But they can not impose on us what our nationality is.

u may feel greek but u are not a greek citizen but a cypriot citizen.

Cypriots are just like Cretans and Athenians when it comes to ethnicity. As I said a separate citizenship was something imposed on us and therefore not something that defines us.

regardless; cypriot political interests do not always comply with greek political interests. when standing up for what's best for cyprus one must think with a cypriot head, not a greek heart.

There could always be differences in interests between various regions of a nation.

i think that greece's willingness to endorse the annan plan, rejected by three quarters of free cypriots, suggests more than mere regional differences within a nation.

and would paphos pursue trade links with ankara while kyrenia is still occupied?

Greece didn't endorse the Annan plan. Officially no Greek party supported the Annan plan. On the contrary it is the biggest Cypriot party which supported it (DISY). Does this makes DISY foreigners? Maybe some parties in Greece were unofficially supporting the Annan plan, just like AKEL did in Cyprus, but one thing is what parties support and another what people support. If the Annan plan was placed in a referendum in Greece they would have rejected it there as well.

And as far as I know we are perusing trade links with Ankara. Don't we want them to open their ports to our ships?

[ZoC]

i'm sure all european people (not just the greeks) would have rejected the annan plan. but this from wikileaks, about the politicians, was disturbing...

“Molyviatis (greek foreign fm) believes and we agree that relations with Ankara are much more important than to be kept hostage by the negative position of Papadopoulos,” said Ries. (us ambassador to greece)

cyprus may be pursuing trade links, but my point stands. paphos (acting on its own) would not pursue its own interests and develop trade links with ankara independently of the rest of the island and against the rest of the island's wishes.

[supporttheunderdog]

You are Cypriot - the rest I agree with whole heartedly!

Of course we are Cypriot. And Cypriots are Greek, just like Cretans and Athenians.

no, not just like cretans and athenians. cretans and athenians are citizens of the republic of greece. cypriots are citizens of the republic of cyprus.

What makes somebody Greek is not the citizenship. Citizenship is one thing, nationality and ethnicity a whole another.

well i am talking about citizenship which cannot be overlooked. cypriots are not just like athenians/cretans because of this. and because the geostrategic interests of the political entities to which athenians and to which cypriots belong do not always overlap; which is why it's an important distinction. for example, if greece had had its way cypriots would have said 'yes' to the annan plan.

Furthermore, the only reason that Cyprus is a separate country is because this is what some foreigners imposed. But they can not impose on us what our nationality is.

u may feel greek but u are not a greek citizen but a cypriot citizen.

Cypriots are just like Cretans and Athenians when it comes to ethnicity. As I said a separate citizenship was something imposed on us and therefore not something that defines us.

But the Ancient Cretans (pre 1500 BC or so ) were not in any way Greek - indeed before 2000 BC probably no one in what is now Greece would have any characteristic that could be considered a fore-runner of what is now Greek.

It is only because of imperilistic actions of of a Group of Indo European peoples, four gruoups who claimed descent from a certain King Hellen, through his sons, and were therefore known as the Hellenes, who invaded Greece from the North and and later conquered Crete (about 1500 BC) and who imposed their language and culture on what is now Greece that Greece (including Crete) is now Greek.

[Piratis]

i'm sure all european people (not just the greeks) would have rejected the annan plan. but this from wikileaks, about the politicians, was disturbing...

“Molyviatis (greek foreign fm) believes and we agree that relations with Ankara are much more important than to be kept hostage by the negative position of Papadopoulos,” said Ries. (us ambassador to greece)

cyprus may be pursuing trade links, but my point stands. paphos (acting on its own) would not pursue its own interests and develop trade links with ankara independently of the rest of the island and against the rest of the island's wishes.

That is what Ries said. I can also say "ZoC believes that he is gay", but that wouldn't mean that you ever confessed to me such thing. Do you trust American diplomats? I don't. Most probably Ries distorted what Molyviatis actually told him.

[humanist]

Most of the world today enjoys basically one culture
with some variations an ages. My cousins in Cyprus in their 30"s live similar life to what I do here in Australia. My cousin studied natural therapies and yoga and enjoys being healthy and so she is living a similar life to me and i would consider myself to be an average ausie if anything else really. So we are squabbling about nothing in Cyprus. Cypriots on both sides the poorer people especially are doing it hard because of the dispute. It be best unify to make it easier for OUR people.

[Piratis]

You are Cypriot - the rest I agree with whole heartedly!

Of course we are Cypriot. And Cypriots are Greek, just like Cretans and Athenians.

no, not just like cretans and athenians. cretans and athenians are citizens of the republic of greece. cypriots are citizens of the republic of cyprus.

What makes somebody Greek is not the citizenship. Citizenship is one thing, nationality and ethnicity a whole another.

well i am talking about citizenship which cannot be overlooked. cypriots are not just like athenians/cretans because of this. and because the geostrategic interests of the political entities to which athenians and to which cypriots belong do not always overlap; which is why it's an important distinction. for example, if greece had had its way cypriots would have said 'yes' to the annan plan.

Furthermore, the only reason that Cyprus is a separate country is because this is what some foreigners imposed. But they can not impose on us what our nationality is.

u may feel greek but u are not a greek citizen but a cypriot citizen.

Cypriots are just like Cretans and Athenians when it comes to ethnicity. As I said a separate citizenship was something imposed on us and therefore not something that defines us.

But the Ancient Cretans (pre 1500 BC or so ) were not in any way Greek - indeed before 2000 BC probably no one in what is now Greece would have any characteristic that could be considered a fore-runner of what is now Greek.

It is only because of imperilistic actions of of a Group of Indo European peoples, four gruoups who claimed descent from a certain King Hellen, through his sons, and were therefore known as the Hellenes, who invaded Greece from the North and and later conquered Crete (about 1500 BC) and who imposed their language and culture on what is now Greece that Greece (including Crete) is now Greek.

And in Britain there was nothing English until 2000 years later (5th century AD) when the Germanic tribe of Angles invaded Britain.

Human beings existed for 10s of thousands of years and population movements happened constantly. But if you want to compare England and Greece, it is obvious that Greece is far more Greek than England is English.

You need to go back 3000-4000 years to find a "non Greek Greece", but you can find a "non English England" if you go back just 1500 years.

[ZoC]

i'm sure all european people (not just the greeks) would have rejected the annan plan. but this from wikileaks, about the politicians, was disturbing...

“Molyviatis (greek foreign fm) believes and we agree that relations with Ankara are much more important than to be kept hostage by the negative position of Papadopoulos,” said Ries. (us ambassador to greece)

cyprus may be pursuing trade links, but my point stands. paphos (acting on its own) would not pursue its own interests and develop trade links with ankara independently of the rest of the island and against the rest of the island's wishes.

That is what Ries said. I can also say "ZoC believes that he is gay", but that wouldn't mean that you ever confessed to me such thing.

but that would be u simply shooting ur mouth off without thinking; without a shred of evidence... lashing out like a cornered cat, in a hurried attempt to score some cheap point.

u may deny a greek foreign minister would articulate that his country's relations with ankara were more important than being held hostage to cyprus. i don't.

Do you trust American diplomats? I don't.

i don't trust greek ones either.

Most probably Ries distorted what Molyviatis actually told him.

u haven't addressed my second point.

[Piratis]

i'm sure all european people (not just the greeks) would have rejected the annan plan. but this from wikileaks, about the politicians, was disturbing...

“Molyviatis (greek foreign fm) believes and we agree that relations with Ankara are much more important than to be kept hostage by the negative position of Papadopoulos,” said Ries. (us ambassador to greece)

cyprus may be pursuing trade links, but my point stands. paphos (acting on its own) would not pursue its own interests and develop trade links with ankara independently of the rest of the island and against the rest of the island's wishes.

That is what Ries said. I can also say "ZoC believes that he is gay", but that wouldn't mean that you ever confessed to me such thing.

but that would be u simply shooting ur mouth off without thinking; without a shred of evidence... lashing out like a cornered cat, in a hurried attempt to score some cheap point.

The only point I was trying to make is that what you quoted is what Ries said and not what Molyviatis said. Beyond that I don't understand your reaction, but as we say in Cyprus "aposhi mouyian mouyiazete".

u may deny a greek foreign minister would articulate that his country's relations with ankara were more important than being held hostage to cyprus. i don't.

Do you trust American diplomats? I don't.

i don't trust greek ones either.

Most probably Ries distorted what Molyviatis actually told him.

u haven't addressed my second point.

Apparently you do trust Americans more than Greeks, otherwise you wouldn't believe everything that American diplomats say. Thats your problem though, not mine.

Your second point was already answered. But I will repeat it: Trade links between Greece and Turkey is not against our wishes. On the contrary we are asking from Turkey to open her ports to our ships as well.

[ZoC]

i'm sure all european people (not just the greeks) would have rejected the annan plan. but this from wikileaks, about the politicians, was disturbing...

“Molyviatis (greek foreign fm) believes and we agree that relations with Ankara are much more important than to be kept hostage by the negative position of Papadopoulos,” said Ries. (us ambassador to greece)

cyprus may be pursuing trade links, but my point stands. paphos (acting on its own) would not pursue its own interests and develop trade links with ankara independently of the rest of the island and against the rest of the island's wishes.

That is what Ries said. I can also say "ZoC believes that he is gay", but that wouldn't mean that you ever confessed to me such thing.

but that would be u simply shooting ur mouth off without thinking; without a shred of evidence... lashing out like a cornered cat, in a hurried attempt to score some cheap point.

The only point I was trying to make is that what you quoted is what Ries said and not what Molyviatis said. Beyond that I don't understand your reaction, but as we say in Cyprus "aposhi mouyian mouyiazete".

u may deny a greek foreign minister would articulate that his country's relations with ankara were more important than being held hostage to cyprus. i don't.

Do you trust American diplomats? I don't.

i don't trust greek ones either.

Most probably Ries distorted what Molyviatis actually told him.

u haven't addressed my second point.

Apparently you do trust Americans more than Greeks, otherwise you wouldn't believe everything that American diplomats say. Thats your problem though, not mine.

i trust foreign diplomats, whether they're greek or american, to act in the interests of their country - not cyprus's. it was ever thus. the ries/molyviatis "alleged" quote is entirely in keeping with this.

Your second point was already answered. But I will repeat it: Trade links between Greece and Turkey is not against our wishes. On the contrary we are asking from Turkey to open her ports to our ships as well.

that's not wot i was asking. ur sidestepping the point i was making. never mind.