Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

Thx a lot for the infos u given Oracle. So, they were above religion... I won't ask any credible sources abt it but i'll do my own research ...

For ur self-denying services at this time of the night, I wanna reward u with some new materials for future use... Hope u focus on the last message of...

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/ ... yprus.html

This is the message I'll focus on...


... Cyprus surpasses every other Greek island in the number of natives
illustrious for their birth, dignity, learning and saintliness...
Abbe Giovanni Mariti
Official of the Imperial and Tuscan
Consulates, lived in Cyprus 1760-67
Author of the "Viaggi per I'Isola di Cipro"

(And not just every Greek island)

I propose that it is clear from these quotations that Cyprus has been regarded as a Greek island for a long time.

[denizaksulu]

The only reason they would have had for converting to Islam would have been to avoid the heavy taxes. It would have been self-defeating if they gave themselves away by having Christian names.

I understand why they would change their first/Christian names, but I dont see why there would have a neccesity to change their Venetian surnames/family names as long as those family names had no religious affiliation.

and in the case of Venetians avoision of heavy taxation wasnt why they converted, they converted to Islam/Orthodoxism of anti-Catholicism within the Ottoman empire

Anyway, apostasy from Islam to Christianity incurred the death penalty.

only until 1857 when the Ottomans pushed through reforms on religious freedom (Hatti-Humayun)

Many 'Turks' in our village had Moslem names and 'foreign' sounding 'lakap' niknames. Some do indeed sound of Italian origin. eg; Gusetta, Gusetti perhaps even Asproyia/Asprou? I am sure this waqs repeated all over the island.

[denizaksulu]

Just great! ... trust the bloody Turks to implicate Cyprus in the slave trade!

Still, it explains what we have been saying to insan all along ... that the Christians and the Muslims did NOT intermarry or even mix much ...

According to 18th century travel writer Richard Pococke who visited the island on October 24, 1738, black slaves were commonly transferred over from Egypt and sold to the Ottoman Turks in Cyprus. The Turks, according to Pococke would not “suffer them (the Christians) to buy any black slaves”. Their reluctance was because a majority of the slaves were Muslim, and under Islamic Sharia Law they could not be sold to Christians-it would have been unthinkable for a Muslim to be held as a slave by a Christian in a Muslim Empire.

Keeping slave girls was not always for prudent house keeping purposes though; it was not uncommon for a female African slave to be used as a concubine or maintain the role of an inamorata that the family wished to keep a secret.

BTW .... Does anyone have that photo of Zan with that lovely, dark Afro hair ....

I know Halil but as there is not one GC here that has stood up and said "I'M BLACK AND I'M PROUD" then I don't think they are interested!!!

My dear Oracle. Dont get too excited. The article says,1 muslim could not have muslims as slaves.' As concubines they prefered the dark eyed Greek Cypriot Despina's. Concubines or wives are not the same as slaves.

You have not understood the article at all!

Interestingly Deniz ... it alludes to how sacrosanct the differences in religion were ... So it is further proof that GCs and Otto-Turk (slave traders) did NOT intermarry ... Obviously the Otto-Turk (slave traders) preferred their African slaves as opposed to their European slaves (us) ....

But baby Zan was sooo cute ...

Is it any wonder you scare him off!!!

[runaway]

Some horrible woman declared she would be out of this thread but no credibility as always.

[The Cypriot]

Thx a lot for the infos u given Oracle. So, they were above religion... I won't ask any credible sources abt it but i'll do my own research ...

For ur self-denying services at this time of the night, I wanna reward u with some new materials for future use... Hope u focus on the last message of...

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/ ... yprus.html

This is the message I'll focus on...


... Cyprus surpasses every other Greek island in the number of natives
illustrious for their birth, dignity, learning and saintliness...
Abbe Giovanni Mariti
Official of the Imperial and Tuscan
Consulates, lived in Cyprus 1760-67
Author of the "Viaggi per I'Isola di Cipro"

(And not just every Greek island)

I propose that it is clear from these quotations that Cyprus has been regarded as a Greek island for a long time.

So it would seem, your Beatitude. But not merely. For it's also clear our natives (or some of us it at least) surpass all other islanders through our birth, dignity, learning and - above all I imagine in your case - saintliness.

[Oracle]

Some horrible woman declared she would be out of this thread but no credibility as always.

I meant for the duration of the preceding line of debate ... i.e. halil's childish racist attempts to degrade people according to the colour of their skin ... but that sort of thing doesn't seem strange to you racist segregationists, does it?

Then a new line of debate began regarding the ever-disgusting revelations of further Ottoman atrocities ... that of their slave trade and abuse of female slaves as concubines (to improve the TC stock, I suppose )

[Simon]

Thx a lot for the infos u given Oracle. So, they were above religion... I won't ask any credible sources abt it but i'll do my own research ...

For ur self-denying services at this time of the night, I wanna reward u with some new materials for future use... Hope u focus on the last message of...

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/ ... yprus.html

This is the message I'll focus on...


... Cyprus surpasses every other Greek island in the number of natives
illustrious for their birth, dignity, learning and saintliness...
Abbe Giovanni Mariti
Official of the Imperial and Tuscan
Consulates, lived in Cyprus 1760-67
Author of the "Viaggi per I'Isola di Cipro"

(And not just every Greek island)

I propose that it is clear from these quotations that Cyprus has been regarded as a Greek island for a long time.

So it would seem, your Beatitude. But not merely. For it's also clear our natives (or some of us it at least) surpass all other islanders through our birth, dignity, learning and - above all I imagine in your case - saintliness.

As a true Cypriot, I never doubted it.

[Tim Drayton]

The only reason they would have had for converting to Islam would have been to avoid the heavy taxes. It would have been self-defeating if they gave themselves away by having Christian names.

I understand why they would change their first/Christian names, but I dont see why there would have a neccesity to change their Venetian surnames/family names as long as those family names had no religious affiliation.

and in the case of Venetians avoision of heavy taxation wasnt why they converted, they converted to Islam/Orthodoxism of anti-Catholicism within the Ottoman empire

Anyway, apostasy from Islam to Christianity incurred the death penalty.

only until 1857 when the Ottomans pushed through reforms on religious freedom (Hatti-Humayun)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that TCs have only recently started using surnames. Until recently TCs were indentified by their own forename followed by their father's name. If a man named Fikret had a son called Mehmet, he would be know as 'Mehmet Fikret'. If the latter had a daughter called Lale, she would be know as 'Lale Mehmet'. So even if Venetians had surnames or family names, there was no tradition that would have preserved these.

[YFred]

The only reason they would have had for converting to Islam would have been to avoid the heavy taxes. It would have been self-defeating if they gave themselves away by having Christian names.

I understand why they would change their first/Christian names, but I dont see why there would have a neccesity to change their Venetian surnames/family names as long as those family names had no religious affiliation.

and in the case of Venetians avoision of heavy taxation wasnt why they converted, they converted to Islam/Orthodoxism of anti-Catholicism within the Ottoman empire

Anyway, apostasy from Islam to Christianity incurred the death penalty.

only until 1857 when the Ottomans pushed through reforms on religious freedom (Hatti-Humayun)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that TCs have only recently started using surnames. Until recently TCs were indentified by their own forename followed by their father's name. If a man named Fikret had a son called Mehmet, he would be know as 'Mehmet Fikret'. If the latter had a daughter called Lale, she would be know as 'Lale Mehmet'. So even if Venetians had surnames or family names, there was no tradition that would have preserved these.

Yes but if a man was called Mehmet Ismail for instance he would also unofficially be refered to as Mehmed Ismailo, or Kashano or Halilazzo or quite a few other o's.

[Tim Drayton]

There was a chap called Necmi Potamyalızâde who used to write articles in English in various publications in the early 1900's. This name puzzles me. Potamyalızâde sounds like a surname - perhaps his family was from Potamya, a stone's throw away from Louroujina. Yet Muslims in Cyprus did not use surnames at the time. Could this have been some kind of nickname?